Episode 10 | 什么样的中国女生是美女？
Joanne
哈喽，大家好，欢迎大家来到我们的第10期节目，今天有邀请到一位也是在法国读博士的小伙伴，你来自我介绍一下？ Hello, everyone, welcome to our 10th episode, today we have a friend who is also a PhD student in France.
WangZhou
大家好，我叫Wangzhou，我现在在巴黎七大读理论计算机的博士，我跟Joanne是通过一个我的办公室的同事，是一个共同好友一起认识的。 My name is Wangzhou and I am currently doing my PhD in theoretical computing at the University of Paris 7. I met Joanne through a colleague in my office, a mutual friend.
Joanne
你刚才说什么理论计算机，(对就是数学下面一个分支理论计算机）这个太复杂了，我觉得我也不知道是什么意思，总之就是数学。 You said something about theoretical computing, (yes it’s a branch of mathematics, theoretical computing) it’s too complicated, I don’t think I know what it means, it’s just mathematics.
WangZhou
对。 I don’t think I know what it means, but it’s just mathematics.
Joanne
对，但是今天我们要聊的一个话题也跟数学一点关系也没有，因为我们两个都是女生，然后今天我还看到Wangzhou, 她的头发特别的漂亮，她头发特别的长，然后是中国女生就是独有的黑长直，这是一个中国的说法，就是黑色的，很长的，直的头发叫”黑长直”。 Yes, but one of the topics we are going to talk about today is not related to mathematics at all, because we are both girls, and today I saw WangZhou, her hair is very beautiful, her hair is very long, and it is a Chinese girl’s unique black long and straight, which is a Chinese term for black, long, straight hair.
我就想到其实有很多的中国男生，她特别喜欢女生的头发是黑长直，这是一个怎么说中国独有的审美观嗯，对。然后今天我们就想聊一聊中国对女生的审美观的话题。 I thought about how there are a lot of Chinese guys who actually like girls with long, black hair, which is a unique Chinese aesthetic. Then today we wanted to talk about the aesthetics of Chinese girls.
WangZhou
好的，首先我要说明一下，我的黑长直是因为在法国很长时间了，没有办法去剪。 Well, first of all I want to clarify that I have long black hair because I’ve been in France for a long time and I can’t get it cut.
Joanne
法国剪头发是不是很贵？对。 Is it very expensive to get a haircut in France? Yes.
WangZhou
所以很多留学生同学到法国留学以后可能都不会去剪头发，所以男可能会见到很多男生同学也会留长发，原因其实是因为大家可能会减少剪头发的次数。 So a lot of international students might not get their hair cut when they come to France, so men might see a lot of male students with long hair, because they might cut their hair less often.
Joanne
对，但是你的头发确实是发质很好，然后我觉得应该是很多女生中国特别是我都是梦寐以求像这样黑长直的一头秀发，在中文也可以说一头秀发。 Yes, but your hair is really good, and I think it’s a dream of many girls in China, especially me, to have long, dark, straight hair like this, or in Chinese, a beautiful head of hair.
然后刚才说到这个词叫审美观，审美观其实是一个挺正式的词，意思就是，中国男生或者也不一定是男生，大家觉得什么样子的东西是美的或者什么样的人是漂亮的，所以就叫审美观。 The word “aesthetics” is actually a formal word that means what Chinese guys or not necessarily guys think is beautiful or what kind of people are beautiful, so it’s called aesthetics.
Wangzhou 你觉得在中国男生的心里什么样的女生是比较漂亮的？ WangZhou What kind of girls do you think are more beautiful in the minds of Chinese guys?
WangZhou
我可能还是会顺着“黑长直”先说下去，为什么“黑长直”在中国男生眼里会是比较首要选择的一个条件。 I would probably go along with “long and straight black” first, why is “long and straight black” a top choice in the eyes of Chinese guys.
我觉得是因为中国男性可能会更喜欢女性有一种温柔，乖巧，这些的性格在里面。而在中国的文化中去染头发、烫头发、做发型，头发添加更过多的非自然的颜色，可能会在他们心中形成一种女生会有一些，叛逆，从小不是那种乖乖女，所以他们可能会更倾向于从他们的性从男性的角度出发，他们可能会觉得黑长直的女生更居家，更温柔这些性格。 I think it’s because Chinese men probably prefer women to have a gentle, well-behaved, character in them. In the Chinese culture, dyeing, perming, styling and adding more unnatural colours to the hair may create a sense in their minds that girls are rebellious and not good girls from a young age, so they may be more inclined to look at their sexuality from a male point of view, and they may find girls with long, dark and straight hair to be more homely and gentle.
Joanne
对，我觉得温柔居家还有一个点就是古典美，我觉得在中国很多男生还是会喜欢有所谓古典美古典。其实就是怎么解释，古典，传统文化，传统比较温柔，比较居家的女孩子，有一点像中国古代的那些美女，她们都是长发飘飘。但是我觉得近几年来，中国的对女生的审美观也受到很多东亚文化，比如说日本和韩国文化的影响。 Yes, I think another point of being gentle and homely is classical beauty, I think in China many guys still like to have what is called classical beauty classical. In fact, how to explain it, classical, traditional culture, traditional more gentle, more homely girls, a little bit like those ancient Chinese beauties, they are long-haired and floating. But I think in recent years, the aesthetics of Chinese girls have also been influenced by many East Asian cultures, such as Japanese and Korean cultures.
WangZhou
一个受非常大的影响是我最近在巴黎才听到的一个词叫blackpink，就是在巴黎的一条街上，我觉得这个方面，法国也很受方面的影响，在巴黎的一条Montparnasse一条街上有一家服装店，它非常的不起眼，但是每一次门口都排着非常长的队伍，直到有一天我去问了他们，才说这个里面卖的都是最小码的衣服，只有非常在我们眼里都已经是不正常瘦的女生才可以穿进这样的衣服。 A very big influence is a word I heard recently in Paris called blackpink, which is in a street in Paris, and I think France is also very influenced by this. Only one day I asked them about it and they said that they sold the smallest sizes of clothes and that only girls who were already abnormally thin in our eyes were allowed to wear such clothes.
然后这种风气好像在各个国家都有一点被受到影响。 And then this trend seems to have been influenced a little bit in every country.
Joanne
对，因为韩国的k-pop女团，所谓女团就是girl band，他们因为你刚才说到blackpink也是韩国可能最著名的一个女团，然后我觉得就是以瘦为美，基本上是东亚文化里面，特别是韩国和中国女生非常重要的一个审美标准，特别是要大长腿，小蛮腰。两个词也意思就是腰要细，腿要长，又白又长，对吧？ Yes, because Korean k-pop girl groups, so-called girl bands, they are probably one of the most famous girl groups in Korea because of what you just said about blackpink, and I think that being thin is basically a very important aesthetic standard for girls in East Asian culture, especially in Korea and China, especially to have long legs and a small waist. Both words also mean that the waist should be thin and the legs should be long, white and long, right?
对然后我觉得还有一点就是，白很重要，特别是其实很多人可能听说过，中国女生很注重防晒，就是不喜欢把自己晒黑，这一点跟欧美的女生很不一样，因为很多欧美女生她们去海滩，目的就是要把自己晒黑，但中国女生就会把自己捂得严严实实的。从上到下。 And then I think another thing is that it’s important to be white, especially because many people may have heard that Chinese girls are very concerned about sun protection, that is, they don’t like to get a tan, which is very different from European and American girls, because a lot of European and American girls go to the beach and their goal is to get a tan, but Chinese girls cover themselves up tightly. From top to bottom.
WangZhou
这一点我也是一直很好奇，这一点，他在可能我从理科生的角度出发，我我不知道为什么在中国的时候，对不管是身边的朋友还是什么，大家争锋追逐的，都是以白为美。等我到了欧洲，我确实发现大家都是以自然色为美，谁晒的好像晒的颜色更自然，好像是更健康的那种代表。 This is something I’ve always been curious about, this, heck, maybe I’m coming from a science student’s point of view, I I don’t know why when I was in China, to whatever friends I had around me or whatever, what everyone was fighting for, was that white was beautiful. When I got to Europe, I did find that everyone was looking at natural colours as beauty, who tanned as if they had a more natural tan, as if they were a healthier sort of representation.
让我从我的角度来想的话，我可能会觉得是不是因为亚洲人的原先的肤色是呃偏黄色，所以他们更希望自己白色是更稀有的颜色，他们就会希望自己的肤色更白，而在欧洲更多的人原先的肤色就是偏白，所以他们更希望就是一种更自然的颜色，所以我也不大清楚这个是因为什么文化背景造成的。 If I think about it from my point of view, I might think it’s because Asians have a yellowish skin tone, so they want their white to be a rarer colour and they want their skin tone to be whiter, whereas in Europe more people have a fair skin tone, so they want it to be a more natural colour, so I’m not sure what the cultural background is to this.
Joanne
我觉得可能就像你说的，大家都想要变成自己没有的东西，所以就是以稀有的东西为美，所以说欧美人他们本来就白，他们就希望可能晒黑一点，而且在中国文化里面，好像大家都会觉得欧美人的长相比较好看，可能也有一点点怎么说种族上面的固有的一些cliché。我觉得然后中国人就会说……女生要……我们以前有一个词叫白富美，就是要白，富有，美丽。现在有一个词叫“白幼瘦”，就是要皮肤要白，长相要向幼龄化，“幼”就是“幼小“，比较可爱。 I think like you said, everyone wants to be something they’re not, so it’s the rare things that are beautiful, so Europeans and Americans are already white, they want to be a little bit darker, and in Chinese culture, it seems like everyone thinks that Europeans and Americans look better, so maybe there’s a little bit of a cliché inherent in the race. I think then the Chinese will say …… girls to …… we used to have a word called white rich beauty, that is, to be white, rich, beautiful. Now there is a word called “white young thin”, that is to skin to white, looks to young age, “young” is “young small”, more lovely.
日本里面可以叫卡哇伊这样的女生，然后瘦，所以白又瘦，我觉得现在是可以总结中国对中国女生的一个审美观对。你觉得这个审美观现在有什么变化？或者你觉得它健康吗？这种是美观？ In Japan, you can call a girl like Kawaii, and then thin, so white and thin, I think it is now possible to summarize the aesthetic of Chinese girls in China. How do you think this aesthetic has changed now? Or do you think it’s healthy? Is this aesthetic?
WangZhou
其实我是觉得瘦，因为我自己是有亲身经历的，就是我有同学为了减肥导致自己身体的一些激素，他就不吃任何的主食，就为了瘦为了穿下好看的衣服。 I actually feel thin because I have personal experience, that is, I have a classmate who, in order to lose weight and cause some hormones in his body, does not eat any staple food, just to be thin in order to wear nice clothes.
也就是说市面上的这种对小号衣服的追求，对大家造成的影响是大家会有一些不太理智的人，就会通过这种会去强行的减肥，不顾自己的身体健康，其实这个是非常不好的。因为我真的有认识同学，她到后期她的激素非常的乱，都需要去医院就是吃药去调节，但她宁可去吃药调节激素，她也不愿意好好吃饭，她就是为了不让自己的体重上去。 That is to say, the pursuit of small size clothes on the market, the impact on everyone is that we will have some less sensible people, will go through this will be forced to lose weight, regardless of their own health, in fact, this is very bad. I really know a classmate, her hormones are so messed up that she needs to go to the hospital to take medication to regulate them, but she would rather take medication to regulate her hormones than eat properly, she just wants to keep her weight from going up.
Joanne
对，我觉得这种身材焦虑，身材管理其实也不仅在中国，在很多国家，在欧欧美，国家、东亚国家也都有。但是我觉得这边可能包容度还是要高一点，对于大码的女生，所谓大码，就是穿大码，就是L码或者XL码的女生，会比较宽容。像你刚才说的在中国有好多的衣服，就是以小号的为美，或者很多是露脐装。所谓露脐就是把肚脐眼，肚脐眼就是belly button，露出来的衣服。这种衣服真的是需要腰非常的细，或者要有马甲线。马甲线，你来解释一下，你知道什么是马甲线吗？ Yes, I think this kind of body anxiety and body management is not only in China, but also in many countries, in Europe, America, countries in Europe and East Asia. But I think over here it’s probably a little bit more tolerant, for plus size girls, by plus size, it means girls who wear large sizes, that’s size L or XL, it’s a little bit more tolerant. Like you said earlier in China there are so many clothes that are just beautiful in smaller sizes, or a lot of them are revealing. The so-called plunging neckline is a dress that exposes the navel, the navel is the belly button, to the eye. This kind of dress really requires a very thin waist or a waistline. You know what a waistline is?
WangZhou
就是肚子上的肌肉。 It’s the muscles on your stomach.
Joanne
对，差不多就是腹肌。但是它因为是这两条长长的腹肌的肌肉的线条，有一点像穿了一件马甲我我的理解是所以后来叫马甲线，然后这个词在中文里面特别的popular，对吧？大家都说我要练腹肌，我要练出马甲线。最近还有比较流行的有什么？ Yeah, it’s pretty much the abs. But it’s because it’s these two long lines of abdominal muscles, it’s a little bit like wearing a vest I my understanding is that’s why it’s called vest line, and then this word in Chinese is particularly popular, right? Everyone says I want to train my abs, I want to train my waistline. What else is popular these days?
WangZhou
A4 腰 A4 waist
Joanne
对， A4腰是什么？你要解释一下。 Yeah, what’s an A4 waist? You have to explain it.
WangZhou
就是用一张A4纸能够挡住你的腰。 It’s being able to block your waist with a piece of A4 paper.
Joanne
对，但A4纸是横着放还是竖着放？（竖着放，哈哈）我的腰可能横着放可以挡住，竖着放没希望之前还有一个挑战，好像是用手那手到背后，然后看你能不能摸到自己的肚脐眼，对对吧？ Yes, but is A4 paper placed horizontally or vertically? (vertically, haha) My waist could probably be blocked horizontally, but before I put it vertically there was a challenge, like using your hand to get behind your back and see if you could feel your navel, right?
WangZhou
正常的人用手是可以直接碰到肚脐眼的，但是这个挑战非常的反人类。它需要你绕身自己之后再去摸肚脐。 Normal people can touch their navel with their hands, but this challenge is very anti-human. It requires you to go around yourself and then touch your belly button.
Joanne
反正我觉得这样的挑战就是越来越加重身材焦虑。 Anyway, I think this challenge just adds to body anxiety.
因为看到什么微博上中国的社交媒体上就有好多的明星，他们就会晒说我的腰是A4腰。 Because there are so many celebrities on Weibo and Chinese social media who say my waist is an A4 waist.
WangZhou
嗯对，而且这些挑战为什么都只针对女性呢？ Yeah, and why are these challenges only for women?
Joanne
对，为什么我觉得中国对女生的审美要求很高，我们对男生有什么审美要求吗？ Yeah, why do I think China has high aesthetic requirements for girls, do we have any aesthetic requirements for guys?
WangZhou
对，在同时说对有对白富美有对应的高富帅，我们对他们的可能要求上更多，就是视觉上的感受要高，然后要富有，帅的话可能帅怎么定义。 Yes, at the same time there is a counterpart to the rich and white, we probably require more from them, which is to have a high visual perception and to be rich, and handsome in terms of how to define handsome.
Joanne
就是好看，就是长得帅，但其实我觉得对于男生，很多女生会说只要干净收拾的整洁干净，可以对也不需要长得特别帅，而且大家也不会要求男生有肌很有肌肉，或者真的脸长得很好看怎么的。 But actually I think for guys, many girls would say that as long as they are clean and tidy, they don’t need to be particularly handsome, and people don’t expect guys to have muscles or a really good-looking face.
所以说我觉得其实很多社会都是一样，对女生的要求特别高。 So I think it’s actually the same in many societies that are particularly demanding of girls.
你在平时生活当中会对自己的身材或者长相有什么特别的打扮？ Do you have any particular style of dressing for your body or looks in your life?
WangZhou
我是一边说着要减肥，但是一边又吃很多的人，所以我可能会因为我平常的工作会导致我看电视看电脑的时间很长，然后长时间坐着，其实对我自己身体不好，就是我的视力下降很快，然后包括我的腰可能会不好，因为我一整天都住在那边，没有运动的话，我的腰需要支撑我一整天的力量。 I am someone who talks about losing weight but eats a lot at the same time, so I may have a job that causes me to spend a lot of time watching TV and watching computers, and then sit for a long time, which is actually bad for my body, that is, my eyesight decreases very quickly, and then my back may not be good because I live there all day, and without exercise, my back needs to support my strength all day.
所以我是一方面很想瘦，一方面又控制不住嘴，然后所以我可能会平常多运动一些，然后来达到一个平衡，我没有过度去追求我非要达到什么体重，但是我可能会工作时间长了以后去锻炼一下，保持一个运动量的平衡。 So I’m trying to be thin on the one hand, but I can’t control my mouth on the other, so I’ll probably exercise a bit more to achieve a balance, I don’t go overboard with the weight I have to reach, but I’ll probably work out after I’ve worked long hours to keep a balance of exercise.
Joanne
我觉得这样还是挺好的，其实就是一边保证正常的吃饭，然后营养均衡的吃饭，一边又运动，这样其实我觉得这种是比较健康的生活态度。 I think it’s a good idea to eat normally and have a balanced diet while exercising, which I think is a healthier attitude to life.
WangZhou
对我可能没有办法去过度追求身材焦虑，就是我有时候也会感受就比较身材焦虑，因为我比较矮小，所以如果我一旦过胖的话，整个人看起来非常不精神，但是没有最终达到去减肥的过程的原因，是因为我确实太爱吃了。 I don’t feel overly anxious about my figure, because I’m short, so if I put on too much weight, I look very unrefined, but the reason I don’t end up losing weight is because I love to eat too much.
Joanne
我知道我觉得有两种变瘦的方法，就是有一些女生她就是不吃饭，然后他变得很瘦，但他其实没有肌肉，所以可能脂肪含量还是会比较高。另外一种我觉得可能更健康一些些的身材焦虑，虽然也是焦虑，就是会去练肌肉，然后会去做运动。 I know that I think there are two ways to become thin, there are some girls who just don’t eat and then they become very thin, but they don’t actually have muscle, so they might still have a higher fat content. The other way I think is maybe a bit more healthy body anxiety, although it’s also anxiety, is to build muscle and then to do exercise.
WangZhou
对这就近几年我在国内的一些朋友，他们在朋友圈里面打卡比较多，就是健身房，包括有很多同学工作以后也就频繁的去健身房，我觉得这一点其实是挺好的，因为就相当于从某种程度上来说，身材焦虑也给他们带来了一种运动的动力，平常他们可能并不会去锻炼这么多，但是现在他们逐渐的都为了变美，然后多去运动，也是积极的方面。 In recent years, some of my friends in China have been hitting the gym more often in their circle of friends, and many of them have been going to the gym more often since they started working, which I think is actually quite good, because in a way, body anxiety also gives them a motivation to exercise, because they might not normally exercise so much, but now they are gradually To be beautiful and then to exercise more is also a positive aspect.
Joanne
对，但我觉得最终得看你的目的是什么，就是你去健身房是为了你自己开心，或者为了你自己的健康，还是为了别人，对吧？所以说到底，我觉得如果你是为了自己的身体比较舒服，身体比较健康去健身，我觉得是一种好的方法，但我确实也有看到焦虑到每天必须要去健身，或者说如果今天体脂率（体脂率就是身体里面脂肪的含量）变高了，一点就不开心。其实跟单纯的不吃饭减肥也没有什么区别，我觉得。 Yeah, but I think ultimately it depends on what your purpose is, whether you go to the gym for your own pleasure, or for your own health, or for other people, right? So at the end of the day, I think if you’re going to the gym for your own comfort and your own health, I think it’s a good way to go, but I do see anxiety to the point where you have to go to the gym every day, or you’re not happy at all if your body fat percentage (body fat percentage is the amount of fat in your body) gets higher today. It’s not really any different than simply not eating to lose weight, I think.
而且为了健身，很多人，她就会非常控制吃东西不能吃糖，或者只能吃蛋白质，然后这种控制当然是好的，但是控制到一定的程度，如果你每一天吃饭去超市或者买东西的时候，只关注就非常的焦虑去看它的食物的营养含量，我觉得就有一点过了。 And for the sake of fitness, many people, she will be very control to eat things can not eat sugar, or only eat protein, and then this control is certainly good, but control to a certain extent, if you go to the supermarket or buy something every day, only focus on the food to see its nutritional content, I think it is a little too much.
WangZhou
这个让我想起了我昨天去徒步的时候，有个女生，就是我们昨天去枫丹白露徒步，然后其实路程非常的辛苦，我们一直在爬下，然后我们中午吃饭的时候，大家基本上都去附近的地方买了一些饮料或者水或者就是一些食物吃。 This reminds me of when I went hiking yesterday, there was a girl, we went hiking in Fontainebleau yesterday, and it was actually very hard, we kept climbing down, and then when we had lunch, we all basically went to a nearby place to buy some drinks or water or just some food to eat.
然后但是我们当时有一个女生，她说因为她即将要去海滩上面，然后她不希望自己的肥肉被别人看见，所以她中午就只吃了低脂的一点水果和什么东西，然后我们当时也蛮震惊的毅力，就是为了为了展现出更好的身材，在大运动量的情况下，大家都吃很多的高热量东西，补充能量的情况下，他依旧坚持着要吃减肥餐，不加任何的油什么就只吃。 But we had one girl who said that because she was going to the beach and she didn’t want her fat to be seen by others, she just ate a little bit of low-fat fruit and something for lunch, and then we were quite shocked at the perseverance, just to show off a better body, in a situation where everyone was eating a lot of high-calorie things to replenish their energy in a heavy exercise situation, he He still insisted on eating a diet meal, without any oil or anything.
Joanne
对，带很多去海滩之前，或者有拍结婚照之前，毕业照之前，非常集中的一个月两个月的减肥，真的是挺伤身体的这种。 Yes, before taking a lot of trips to the beach, or before having wedding photos or graduation photos, it’s a very concentrated diet for a month or two, which really hurts the body.
好，今天我们就聊到这里，反正我觉得我自己总结一下的话，我就觉得无论可能也不仅仅在中国，在世界哪个地方，对于女生的外貌和身材的要求都挺高的，然后对于女生来说有很多的身材焦虑，外貌焦虑，我自己来讲我其实不是很care这些，然后我自己也不怎么做防晒，但是我觉得如果在国内的话压力就会比较大，希望这个以后也可以改善吧。你还有什么想要说的吗？ Anyway, I think if I sum up, I think that not only in China, but also in other parts of the world, the demand for girls’ appearance and body shape is quite high, and there is a lot of anxiety about body shape and appearance for girls. I hope this can be improved in the future. Is there anything else you’d like to say?
Joanne
好的，今天就谢谢Wangzhou! Okay, thank you Wangzhou for today!
Wangzhou
谢谢！ Thank you!
