Episode 19 | 中国外国“职场文化”大不同

Joanne 00:08



哈喽，大家好，欢迎大家来到我们的第19期瞎扯学中文。今天邀请到了一位老朋友，他是和我们录了第几期，第二期还是第三期，最早的一期节目。 Hello, everyone, and welcome to our 19th installment of Convo Chinese. Today we have an old friend who was with us for the second or third, earliest episode of the show.



Cameron 00:25



第一期吧，我应该是创始人。 The first one, I think, I was the founder.



Joanne 00:28



元老级嘉宾。 The oldest guest.



Cameron 00:31



大家好，我是Cameron。很高兴又回来了。 Hi everyone, I’m Cameron and I’m glad to be back.



Joanne 00:36



今天我们想要跟大家聊一聊关于职场文化，所谓的职场其实就是工作的场合，在中文里面把这个叫做职场职业的职。 Today we want to talk to you about workplace culture, the so-called workplace is actually the workplace, in Chinese it’s called the workplace occupation.



因为我其实在中国工作过三年，但大多数都是在外企，就是外国的企业其实没有在在国企工作过，所以我也不太好说像职场文化在中国和西方或者在中国和外国有什么区别。 Because I actually worked in China for three years, but most of them were in foreign companies, that is, foreign companies actually did not work in state-owned enterprises, so I’m not very good at saying like what is the difference between workplace culture in China and the West or in China and foreign countries.



Cameron 01:09



但是我觉得就算在中国的外企外国企业，在中国以工作的方式可能还是和国外会有不一样。 But I think even in China foreign companies foreign companies, in China to work in a way that may still be different from abroad.



Joanne 01:20



我觉得可以先跟大家说一下，在中国的话说，不同的企业可能是不是大概分这么几种，大家一般会说国企、私企、外企。 I think we can start by telling people that in China, there are different kinds of companies that are probably not roughly divided into these kinds of categories, and people generally say state-owned enterprises, private enterprises, and foreign enterprises.



Cameron 01:34



差不多对国企就是国有企业对吧？然后而且现在我觉得越来越多的人想要去国企嗯。 I think the state-owned enterprises are the state-owned enterprises, right? And then I think more and more people want to go to state-owned enterprises now.



Joanne 01:44



其实我也不是特别的清楚的一点，是国企和所谓的事业单位中间的区别是什么？ Actually, I’m not particularly sure what the difference is between a state-owned enterprise and a so-called public institutions.



Cameron 01:54



事业单位我的了解不一定正确，但是我觉得事业单位是那种有点像非盈利组织，他们是非盈利性质的，也就是说他们是为了社会的某一个功能而创造的。 Public institutions in China, I’m not necessarily correct in my understanding, but I think they are kind of like non-profit organizations, they are non-profit in nature, which means they are created for a certain function of society.



Joanne 02:14



大学医院这些是不是算事业单位，但就不算是。 Are these university hospitals considered public institutions, but then they’re not.



Cameron 02:21



应该是的，他们是为了某种社会功能。 They should be, they’re for some kind of social function.



Joanne 02:26



如果我要说回来在中国的职场和国外的企业或者说是中国的外企有什么最大的区别？我想到的第一条可能是关于呃，hierarchy，我不知道中文怎么翻译。 If I were to come back to what is the biggest difference between the workplace in China and a foreign company or a foreign company in China? The first one that comes to mind is probably about uh, hierarchy, I don’t know how that translates in Chinese.



Cameron 02:43



职场阶级。 The workplace class.



Joanne 02:45



对阶级，比如说有一个很直观的例子，在外企的话，大家一般都会直接用名字来称呼对方，或者很常见的是很多人会取一个英语名字，而且还蛮好笑的一点是现在很多的所谓的大厂，大厂的话在中文意思就是那些科技企业，比如说像腾讯、阿里巴巴或者是快手在这些大厂，现在有一些新的文化是要给每个员工取一个“花名”，然后“花名”，其实就有一点像昵称对不对？ To the class, for example, there is a very visual example, in foreign companies, we will generally use the name to address each other directly, or very common is that many people will take an English name, and also quite funny is that now many of the so-called big factory, big factory words in Chinese means those technology companies, for example, like Tencent, Alibaba or Racer in these big factories, now there is some new culture is To give each employee a “fancy name”, and then “fancy name”, actually a little bit like a nickname, right?



Cameron 03:24



然后我也知道像阿里，他们的花名也都是这种武侠风格，所以也也还挺有意思的，对。 And then I know like Ali, their names are also in this martial arts style, so it’s also kind of interesting, yeah.



Joanne 03:37



对，但我觉得可能他的目的就是这样会称呼起来比较直接，就没有特别多的阶级，比如说像国企里面就比较会常听到要叫，什么“总”，什么”哥“之类的。 Yes, but I think maybe his purpose is so that will be called up more direct, there is no special class, for example, like state-owned enterprises inside will be more often heard to call, what “boss”, what “brother” and so on.



Cameron 03:53



比如说一般是信后面加上你的职称，比如说李科长，比如说张处长这些之类的。 For example, it is usually a letter followed by your title, such as Li Chief, such as Zhang Director of these and so on.



Joanne 04:03



对，或者是刘老板刘书记或者是刘哥，你不会说直接把这个人的名字或者说给它取个英文名字这样子，所以我觉得虽然从小的地方来说只是称呼上的不同，但我觉得背后反映的其实是这种等级阶级制度不太一样。 Yes, or Liu boss Liu secretary or Liu brother, you will not say directly to the person’s name or give it an English name this way, so I think that although from a small place just call on the difference, but I think behind the reflection is actually this hierarchical class systems are differnet



Cameron 04:27



对，可能是在国有企业或者这种事业单位，其实我觉得在事业单位相当于是公务员了，就是为了政府、工作的、人员在这两种情况里面，可能的确这个阶级还是比较重要的，是你需要去注意的，而且短期之内我也不认为他们会有什么改变，一直会保持这个样子。 Yes, probably in state-owned enterprises or this kind of institutions, in fact, I think in institutions is equivalent to civil servants, is for the government, work, personnel in both cases, probably indeed this class is still more important, is what you need to pay attention to, and in the short term I do not think they will change anything, will always remain this way.



Joanne 04:55



你觉得为什么现在的互联网企业或者科技企业要给员工取花名？ Why do you think internet companies or tech companies are giving their employees fancy names these days?



Cameron 05:05



我觉得就像你说的，他们其实就是可能不太想要有这种阶级，然后可以这样可以更加的激发员工的创造性等等。然后啊各个团队之间的合作可能也会更加顺利，其实也就是更加现代的一种管理方式，比如说。 I think like you said, they actually just don’t really want to have that kind of hierarchy, and then it can be more creative and so on. And then ah the cooperation between the various teams may also be more smooth, in fact, is more modern a management style, for example.



我都不知道他的中文叫什么， Flat （扁平化）的这种职场，或者根本就不是职场扁平化的阶级这些之类的对。 I don’t even know what he called in Chinese, Flat (flattening) of this kind of workplace, or simply not the workplace flattening of the hierarchy of these and so on.



Joanne 05:44



但说到这个其实也挺好笑的，因为我有一个好朋友，最近也是加入了一个所谓的互联网企业，然后他们也有文化说你刚入职的时候就要取一个花名，举一个昵称，但是这个企业已经挺大的了，所以我这个朋友他想要取的名字基本上都已经被取掉了，就是一些比较好听的跟武侠有关的名字等等。 But when it comes to this is actually quite funny, because I have a good friend, recently also joined a so-called Internet companies, and then they also have a culture that you just joined the time to take a name, to raise a nickname, but this business has been quite large, so my friend he wanted to take the name has basically been taken away, is some of the more beautiful and martial arts-related names and so on.



然后他还在群里面，我们有一个微信群问我们说我应该叫什么名字，比如说我叫自己肉包，或者烧卖会不会太搞笑了？就是说你有一个分寸，你的花名也不能太搞笑对吧？但也不能太正经。 Then he also in the group, we have a WeChat group asked us to say what I should call the name, such as I call themselves meat buns, or siu mai will not be too funny? That is, you have a proportion, your name can not be too funny, right? But it can’t be too proper either.



Cameron 06:30



对，其实挺难的，你想一个那种公司都是几万人，你要取一个新的名字，确实要花一番脑筋。对嗯。 Yes, it’s actually quite difficult, you think a kind of company are tens of thousands of people, you have to take a new name, it does take some brainstorming. Right hmm.



Joanne 06:43



你觉得除了刚才我们说的以外，你觉得还有什么区别？ What do you think is the difference other than what we just talked about?



Cameron 06:49



我其实觉得最大的区别还是工作压力上，但是一说到工作压力又要说到，老话题，加班996等等。但是我觉得除了加班这些之外，还是会压力就会感觉很大，比如说一种去升迁的压力，你要去升职的压力，然后同事之间的竞争等等，我感觉可能国内都会比国外更加的激烈一些，但是这只是我自己的感觉，因为我说实话，我自己从来没有在一个真正的公司里面工作过，因为我是属于这种教育教育类的，从来都是在当老师，所以说老师可能其实也跟职场有点像了，对吧？ I think the biggest difference is the work pressure, but when we talk about work pressure, we have to talk about the same old things, overtime, 996, etc. But I think besides the overtime, I think there’s a lot more to it than that. But I think that in addition to overtime, the pressure will still feel great, for example, a kind of pressure to promote, you have the pressure of promotion, and then the competition between colleagues and so on, I feel that the domestic may be more intense than the foreign some, but this is only my own feeling, because I honestly, I have never worked in a real company, because I belong to this kind of education I’ve never been a teacher, so teachers are probably a bit like the workplace, right?



你想一群老师在一起，然后有一个管的什么主管，然后要升职，但是可能还是跟那些有些不同，但是从我个人的想法来说，我认为竞争等等会更加激烈，你觉得。 You think a group of teachers together, and then there’s a supervisor of something, and then to be promoted, but maybe it’s still a little bit different from those, but from my personal thoughts, I think the competition and so on will be more intense, you think.



Joanne 07:58



但我觉得你刚才说的工作压力或者工作时间在国内也不能一概而论的意思，就是不能把这些都怎么说统称起来，或者用一个概念来generalize。 But I think what you just said about work pressure or working hours in China also can’t be generalized in the sense that you can’t say how all of these are collectively called up, or use a concept to generalize.



比如说我觉得像在中国的互联网企业，现在在网上面大家争论的讨论的比较多，就说，互联网企业的工作压力很大，但是中国也有很多的像刚才说的事业单位、国企，比如说我有一些，朋友在国开行、国家开发银行或者是这些大的央企，中央企业其实压力就不是很大，他们的话可能每天工作到6:00 7:00，最多7点也是可以准时下班的。 For example, I think like in China’s Internet companies, now in the net above everyone argues more discussion, said, the Internet companies work under great pressure, but China also has a lot of institutions like just said, state-owned enterprises, for example, I have some, friends in the State Development Bank, the State Development Bank or these large central enterprises, the central enterprises in fact, the pressure is not very big, they may work every day to 6:00 7:00, the word may be to work to 6:00 7:00. 7:00 7:00, at most 7:00 is also on time to leave work.



所以我觉得这个可能是因为最近在网上面讨论的互联网企业的工作压力特别多，所以给我们造成这么一种有一点偏见。 So I think this may be because the recent discussion on the Internet above the work pressure of the Internet companies is particularly large, so it gives us a little bit of prejudice.



Cameron 08:57



其实我觉得不光是互联网企业，私人的企业，私企都存在这个现象，所以说这也是为什么很多人现在想去当公务员，很多人现在想去国企，就是因为起码在这些企业你的加班这些可能会少一点，然后各种福利也会更好一点，这就是这些私企做得不太好的地方，会让人经常加班，然后可能加班还没有加班工资等等，然后这种竞争更激烈，所以说你说的肯定是对的，并不一定所有在中国的工作都比国外压力更大，但是我还是觉得在中国的私人企业私企里面，这个还是一个非常普遍的现象。 In fact, I think not only the Internet enterprises, private enterprises, private enterprises are this phenomenon, so that is why many people now want to go to the civil service, many people now want to go to state-owned enterprises, because at least in these enterprises you may work a little less overtime, and then a variety of benefits will be better, this is where these private enterprises do not do well, will let people often work overtime, and then overtime may also So you are definitely right, not all jobs in China are more stressful than abroad, but I still think this is a very common phenomenon in the private sector in China.



Joanne 09:49



对就是说到工作压力，我觉得另外一个点啊，我感触很深的是关于年假的问题，比如说在外企，哪怕是在中国的外企，基本上哪怕你刚刚入职也会有比如说20天啊15天，或者甚至像我刚刚开始工作的时候就有25天的年假， For example, in foreign companies, even in Chinese foreign companies, basically, even if you have just joined, you will have, for example, 20 days, 15 days, or even 25 days of annual leave when I first started working.



但是就从我和我其他的朋友聊天看起来，中国的国企私企很多都是只有5天的年假，就是说除了5天年假以外，就只有像国庆节啊或者是五一劳动节可以放一个假，但是在那些公共假日你就要跟其他的人一起竞争，一起挤，挤着出国旅游或者去国内旅游等等，所以我觉得因为对我个人来说，我是可以ok接受，每天工作时间长一点，但我非常的需要一个就是年假，让我能够说有一整段的时间，两个星期我可以出去玩，然后放松一下。所以这个是我觉得我无法接受在国内工作的一件很重要的事情对。 But from my chat with my other friends, it seems that many Chinese state-owned enterprises and private enterprises only have 5 days of annual leave, that is to say, in addition to 5 days of annual leave, only like the National Day or May Day Labor Day can take a vacation, but in those public holidays you have to compete with other people, squeeze together, squeeze to travel abroad or go to domestic travel, etc., so I think because for me personally, I am I can ok to accept, work longer hours every day, but I very much need a is the annual leave, so I can say a whole period of time, two weeks I can go out to play, and then relax. So this is a very important thing that I think I can’t accept working in the country right.



Cameron 10:56



我觉得在国内，而且就算你有假，有的时候你不敢请假，你有这个压力，你会觉得我请假了，我的老板会觉得我工作不努力或者怎么样，可是我认为在国外请假是很正常的事情，我有假，然后现在我有了这样一个旅行计划，我就要去做，然后我其他的工作安排我就绕着来就行了，但是国内是我的请假是要根据我的工作安排来进行，也要根据我的老板的安排来进行。 I think at home, and even if you have time off, sometimes you don’t dare to take time off, you have this pressure, you think I’m taking time off, my boss will think I’m not working hard or whatever, but I think it’s normal to take time off abroad, I have time off, and then now I have such a travel plan, I’m going to do it, and then my other work schedule I’ll just go around, but at home it’s my Taking time off is going to be based on my work schedule and also my boss’s schedule.



Joanne 11:37



对，而且我觉得像国外的一些大的企业，比如说hr或者是职场文化比较好的企业，hr都会催员工去请假的。比如说像我之前工作的一个国外的公司，它的话每年到12月份，如果你的 balance，你的系统里面发现还有几天的年假没有请，hr都会发邮件说你要记得把假请掉，要不然的话明年可能这个价就没有办法累计到你明年的年假里面。 Yes, and I think like some big foreign companies, such as hr or workplace culture is better, hr will push employees to take time off. For example, like a foreign company I worked for before, it then every year to December, if your balance, your system found that there are still a few days of annual leave did not ask, hr will send an email to say you have to remember to take the leave off, or else next year may not be able to accumulate the price to your annual leave next year.



然后而且就举一个例子，今天因为我刚刚入职，我现在搬到了瑞士，刚刚加入了一个新的公司，然后今天老板问我说啊最近怎么样？我说我刚刚过来要搬家，然后他就跟我说，你知不知道我们公司有没有可以请一天的搬家的年假，就是有一天的假期是专门用来搬家的，然后我还有点不好意思，我说我刚刚来我也不太好意思请这一天的假，但是他就是特别的无所谓，他特别坦率的就说，无所谓的，假期放在那里给你请的，你搬家肯定是有很多事情要做，所以你要请的话就请没有关系。 Then and just to give an example, today because I just started, I now moved to Switzerland, just joined a new company, and then today the boss asked me to say ah recently how? I said I just came over to move, and then he said to me, do you know if we have a day of annual leave for moving, that is, one day of leave is specifically for moving, and then I was a little embarrassed, I said I just came I’m not too good to take this day of leave, but he was especially indifferent, he said especially frankly, it does not matter, the leave is there for you to take, you I’m sure there are many things to do when you move, so it doesn’t matter if you want to take it.



所以我觉得这个对我来说其实文化上是很不一样的。 So I think this is actually very different culturally for me.



Cameron 12:57



对对，所以我觉得可能是劳工权益的保护，可能我觉得在国外这方面的确更加重视一点。 Right, right, so I think it’s probably the protection of labor rights, maybe I think that aspect does take a little bit more importance in foreign countries.



个人的感觉来说嗯。对。 Personally, I feel like well. Right.



Joanne 13:14



但是你觉得为什么在国内大家虽然工作压力这么大，工作时间也很长，还是怎么说，用中文一句话说挤破了脑袋，也要进这些私企。 But why do you think people in China, even though the work is so stressful and the working hours are so long, or how do you say, in Chinese, to squeeze your head to get into these private companies?



Cameron 13:28



我觉得其实这个也是另外一点，我想我觉得的另外一点在中国工作的一个特点就是咱们刚刚说竞争很大，然后我现在想说的第三个点其实跟可能是第2.5个点，因为不是跟第二点完全不一样，这个点就是我觉得这竞争是越来越大，它是在往上走的趋势，也因为中国研究生越来越多，硕士越来越多，博士也越来越多，然后中国出国留学的，然后回来的人也越来越多，所以有更多的，人越来越多的人进入到了这个职场里面，想要寻找一个岗位，那么这就会使得寻找一个岗位变得更加的困难，因为会有更多的人来和你抢这个位置，对吧？ I think this is actually another point, I think I think another point of working in China is that we just said that the competition is very big, and then the third point I want to talk about now is actually with maybe the 2.5 points, because it is not completely different from the second point, this point is that I think the competition is getting bigger and bigger, it is in the upward trend, also because more and more graduate students in China, more and more masters, more and more Ph. More and more, more and more PhDs, and then more and more people studying abroad in China, and then more and more people are coming back, so there are more and more people entering the job market, trying to find a position, so this will make it more difficult to find a position, because there will be more people to grab this position with you, right?



所以说为什么大家都挤破了头，想去这些互联网公司？第一点当然是因为他们工资比较高。第二点也是因为人很多，所以随便一个职位都会有很多的人去申请，而且这也是我比较担忧的问题，比如说我自己的学业，我的博士还有两年才结束，两年之后，到时候在中国的竞争又会比现在更加激烈，我就经常会担心自己以后的竞争力会不会受到影响等等。 So why are people crowding to go to these Internet companies? The first point is, of course, because they have higher salaries. The second point is also because there are a lot of people, so there are a lot of people applying for any one position, and that’s what I’m worried about, for example, my own studies, my PhD is still two years away, and after two years, the competition in China will be even more intense than it is now, and I’m often worried about whether my competitiveness will be affected in the future, and so on.



Joanne 15:04



我想到另外一个点，我们也可以讨论一下，你觉得现在在中国喝酒就是喝酒的文化现在有没有什么改变？因为就给大家交代一个前提，我是上海人，而且我是完全不能喝酒，所以我在中国工作的时候，一开始我会觉得还挺尴尬的，因为经常需要出去跟客户应酬，然后那个时候还没有特别多喝红酒，就是有白酒红酒，我就一律都说我不能喝酒，我不知道你觉得现在整体的趋势是什么样子。 I think another point that we can also discuss is, do you think the culture of drinking is drinking in China has changed at all? Because just to give you an account of a premise, I am a Shanghai resident, and I am completely unable to drink, so when I was working in China, at first I would feel quite embarrassed, because I often need to go out and socialize with customers, and then at that time there was not particularly much to drink red wine, that is, there is white wine red wine, I said across the board that I can not drink, I do not know what you think the overall trend is like now.



Cameron 15:44



我觉得首先这个事实确实是在中国文化里面吃饭非常重要，很多事情是要大家去吃一顿饭，然后再来谈事情，然后很多事情也是在饭桌上谈事情。 I think first of all this fact is really in Chinese culture eating is very important, a lot of things is to go to eat a meal, and then to talk about things, and then a lot of things are also at the dinner table to talk about things.



所以这也是为什么尤其是在过去职场的一部分，可能的确就是饭桌，你需要在饭桌上有很多应酬，然后在吃饭的过程中就必不可少的有。喝酒这个问题。然后在以前也是有听说很多这种所谓的劝酒，就是说你必须把这酒喝了，你如果不喝你就是不尊重我，你就是瞧不起我。然后如果你喝了ok你尊重我，那么我们可以来谈生意，我认为在以前确实是这样，但是现在我认为这个现象会比较少一点。 So that’s why especially in the past part of the workplace, it may indeed be the dinner table, you need to have a lot of socializing at the dinner table, and then in the process of eating it is essential to have. Drinking this problem. Then in the past is also heard a lot of this so-called persuasion, that is, you must drink the wine, if you do not drink you are not respect me, you are looking down on me. Then if you drink ok you respect me, then we can talk business, I think in the past is true, but now I think this phenomenon will be a little less.



Joanne 16:43



以前有很多的所谓的劝酒词，比如说“感情深，一口闷”，你听说过吗？意思就是说如果我跟你感情深，我跟你交情比较好的话，你就要一口把这个酒给喝完，然后经常就会在酒桌上听到说你跟我是不是兄弟，所以我觉得这种劝酒文化真的是挺很难避免的，但像你说的，我觉得现在的改变可能是从白酒变成了红酒，但这个也是一个会被可能会对身体更加好一点，至少。 There used to be a lot of so-called persuasive words, such as “deep feelings, bored”, have you heard of them? So I think it’s really hard to avoid this kind of persuasion culture, but like you said, I think the change is probably from white wine to red wine, but this is also one of the things that can be better for the body, at least. .



Cameron 17:20



我觉得不光是酒的改变，我觉得是人的观念的改变，尤其是现在年轻人，我觉得更多的会尊重别人，比如说如果对方他不喜欢喝酒，或者他不太能喝酒，并不会去强迫人家，也不会把喝酒喝不喝酒这个事情看作是一个什么天大的事情，你尊不尊重我？ I think it’s not just the wine that’s changed, I think it’s the people’s perception that’s changed, especially the young people now, I think more respect for others, for example, if the other party he doesn’t like to drink, or he can’t drink too much, and won’t force people, and won’t see drinking or not drinking as a big deal, do you respect me?



我觉得这也是因为在以前就有这种新闻出来，比如说什么劝酒，然后那个人一直喝最后喝死了，出了这些事情，我觉得也是经过了很多这种事情，然后整个社会上尤其是年轻人，对于这样的现象有一个新的看法。 I think this is also because in the past there was this kind of news out, such as what persuasion, and then the person kept drinking finally drank to death, out of these things, I think it is also after a lot of



Joanne 18:04



我们今天就先聊到这儿，我觉得因为Cameron和我都蛮久没有在国内工作了，所以我们说的其实都是可能对国内的所谓的职场文化一些想象，刻板印象。 I think because Cameron and I haven’t worked in China for quite a long time, what we’re talking about is actually some imaginary, stereotypical images of the so-called workplace culture in China.



Cameron 18:17



，可能算刻板印象，对。 Cameron 18:17 I think that might be a stereotype, yeah.



Joanne 18:22



或者是从一些新闻网上面听到的道听途说，不能代表中国的可能真实的一些一些现在的情况。 Or what I’ve heard from some of the news networks, it’s not representative of what might be true in China right now.



Cameron 18:31



但是我认为大概可以代表大概可以代表刻板印象，还是有它的根源，还是有它的根据的。 But I think it’s probably representative of the stereotypes, and it still has its roots, it still has its basis.



Joanne 18:40



我最后一个问题，你会不会考虑回国工作？ My last question, would you consider going back to work in your home country?



Cameron 18:44



在我的自己的行业来说，我可能现在会更倾向在国外，因为我以后最有可能的工作的场所，大学。 In terms of my own industry, I would probably prefer to be abroad right now because the most likely place for me to work in the future, universities.



然后国内的大学现在也是我们刚刚说的问题，竞争越来越激烈，我认为大学可能比普通的这种公司这一点还更严重，尤其是因为出国留学的人越来越多，高学历的人越来越多，然后大学很看重你的学历和你的学校这种，所以第一竞争很大，第二压力也很大。 And then the universities in China are now also the problem we just talked about, the competition is getting fiercer and fiercer, and I think universities are probably even more serious than ordinary companies like this, especially because more and more people are studying abroad, more and more people with high qualifications, and then universities are looking at your qualifications and your school like this, so firstly there is a lot of competition and secondly there is a lot of pressure.



Cameron 19:27



然后我这个个人是很看重压力大不的，我需要一个压力不大的环境，所以我个人还是更偏向于以后可能在国外、寻找到一个职位，不过也还是过后毕业了之后才能确定的事情。 I need an environment that is not too stressful, so I personally prefer to find a position in a foreign country, but it’s still something that can be determined after I graduate.



Joanne 19:47



好，好的。谢谢你，我们下次再见，拜拜。 Okay, good. Thank you, we’ll see you next time, bye.