Episode 27 | 在瑞士“被”消费升级

Joanne 00:03


嗯嗯嗯嗯。Hello大家好，欢迎大家来到我们新的一期瞎扯学中文。今天我们的嘉宾终于不是Angelina了，给大家请到了一位新的嘉宾，也是我在日内瓦认识的一个新的好朋友，他叫Chris。 Hello everyone and welcome to our new episode of Learn Chinese by Nonsense. Our guest today is finally not Angelina, we have a new guest and a new good friend that I met in Geneva, his name is Chris.


Chris 00:26


哈喽，大家好，我叫Chris，目前在日内瓦做实习，然后来日内瓦大概6个月，然后很高兴今天啊能跟大家一起聊聊天。 Hello, everybody, my name is Chris, I’m currently doing an internship in Geneva, and I’ve been here for about 6 months, and I’m very happy to be able to talk to you today.


Joanne 00:37


对。然后我觉得一开始我们可以给大家讲一讲我们是怎么认识的，而且我们为什么会聊到说我有学中文的pod cast，因为我们有两个共同的好朋友，两个外国人，一个是瑞士人，还有一个是乌克兰人，但他们两个都会讲中文。 Yeah. And I think at the beginning we can tell you a little bit about how we met and why we talked about the fact that I have a pod cast in Chinese, because we have two good friends in common, two foreigners, one is Swiss and the other is Ukrainian, but they both speak Chinese.


Chris你给大家讲一讲你是怎么样认识这两个会讲中文的外国朋友的？ Chris, tell us how did you meet these two foreign friends who speak Chinese?


Chris 01:08


说起我跟他们俩的故事，还是一个很巧合的机会。 The story of how I met them is a coincidence.


然后有一天我要去日内瓦湖边划船，但是因为那天风太大了，然后我就没有可以去划船，然后我就在湖边就是张望，看风景，然后他们两个过来问我，你是哪个国家的，where are you from？然后我告诉他们我是来自中国，然后他们两个就切换用中文跟我开始交流。我当时也很诧异，但是聊了一会儿之后，他们两个邀请我去旁边的公园转一转，然后就这样，我们加了微信，然后加了联系方式，然后逐渐就熟络起来了。 One day I had to go boating on Lake Geneva, but the wind was too strong that day, so I couldn’t go boating, so I was just looking at the lake, watching the scenery, and then they both came over and asked me, “Which country are you from? I was very surprised, but after chatting for a while, they invited me to go to the park next to them, and that’s how we added WeChat, and then added our contact information, and then gradually we got acquainted.


Joanne 01:55


对，因为这个原因，后来我们管这两个朋友叫中国人收集器， Chinese people collector，为什么？因为他们就经常可能是经常还是跟你是第一次，我不知道就是在路上在呃公园在湖边看到中国人或者是看到亚洲长相的人上前搭讪，然后这个故事还挺搞笑的，我觉得可能在国外生活的学中文的中国人，怎么说能找到愿意做中文交换的朋友，其实机会挺难得的，所以还可能真的需要这种努力上前搭讪，随机收集中国人的方式。 Yes, because of this reason, later we tube these two friends called the Chinese people collector, Chinese people collector, why? Because they often may be often or with you is the first time, I do not know is in the road in the uh park in the lake to see Chinese people or see Asian-looking people to go forward to strike up a conversation, and then this story is quite funny, I think may be living abroad to learn Chinese Chinese people, how to say can find willing to do Chinese exchange friends, in fact, the opportunity is quite rare, so may also really need this effort to go forward to strike up a conversation and collect Chinese people in a random way.


Chris 02:40


对，而且我很惊讶的是，其中乌克兰朋友他没有机会去中国，也没有任何的渠道去系统的学习中文，他凭凭借自己对中文的兴趣，还有一些网上的资源，然后自己学习了中文，然后中文水平也是非常的好，可以已经达到可以沟通的水平了。 Yes, and I was surprised that my Ukrainian friend didn’t have the opportunity to go to China, nor did he have any channels to learn Chinese systematically, but he learned Chinese by himself with his own interest in Chinese and some online resources, and then his Chinese level was also very good, and he could already reach the level of communication.


所以这一点还是让我挺诧异的对。 So I was amazed at this point.


Joanne 03:08


而且我觉得这位朋友估计你会听到我们这一集pod cast来跟你问一个好，然后其实我觉得乌克巴乌克兰朋友的经历也让我意识到做这种podcast真的是很有可能会对学中文的外国朋友很有帮助，因为不是每一个外国朋友都能找到练习中文或者来，用中文来做一个比较自然的对话，这么一个机会。所以也是为什么我继续做 Pod cast。 And I think this friend estimates that you will hear us this episode of pod cast to say hello to you, and then I think the experience of Ukrainian friends in Ukhba also makes me realize that doing this kind of podcast is really very likely to be very helpful to foreign friends who learn Chinese, because not every foreign friend can find practice Chinese or come, use Chinese to do a more natural conversation. So that’s why I continue to do Pod cast.


Chris 03:42


对，然后有一句中国的古话叫做无心插柳柳成荫，这句话的意思当你无心无意间去做一些事情的时候，这个东西有可能在其他人的心里撒下了一个种子，然后他有一天就会变成参天大树，所以我觉得有这样一个机会能将中国的文化有一定的传播，让更多的人有机会去了解中文，去学习中文，我觉得是一个很小的行为，但是我觉得意义重大。 Yes, and there is an old Chinese saying that when you do something inadvertently, it may sow a seed in other people’s heart, and then one day it will become a big tree. I think it’s a small act, but I think it means a lot.


Joanne 04:18


谢谢Chris。 Thank you Chris.


然后今天其实想跟Chris聊的话题是关于我们在日内瓦或者我们在瑞士生活的经历，因为博文来这边6个月，我来这边也刚刚4个月，我们相当于都是 new baby in Switzerland。 Today I would like to talk to Chris about our experience in Geneva or our life in Switzerland, because Bo Wen has been here for 6 months and I’ve been here for just 4 months.


所以其实我刚搬过来的时候，对很多衣食住行各个方面的冲击还是挺大的，我是从巴黎搬过来的，然后Chris是从瑞典搬过来，你当时觉得可能对你来说冲击最大的是什么？ So actually when I first moved here, it was quite a big shock to me in terms of food, clothing, housing and transportation, I moved here from Paris and Chris moved here from Sweden.


Chris 04:58


我当时从国内到瑞典的物价的水平已经是有一个显著的提升了，大概用人民币换算的话就是10倍左右，然后从瑞典到瑞士又是一个强制性消费升级的过程，就是你的工资水平没有太大的变化，但是你花的钱更多，而且是你在非自愿的情况下，所以这种行为和现象可以称之为强制性的消费升级。 At that time, the price level from China to Sweden was already a significant increase, about 10 times in RMB, and then from Sweden to Switzerland is a mandatory consumption upgrade process, that is, your salary does not change much, but you spend more money, and you are involuntarily, so this behavior and phenomenon can be called a mandatory consumption upgrade.


所以我目前来说感觉到的生活压力还是相较于，瑞典来说更大一些，无论你是吃饭还是买东西买衣服还是你的交通，它相对于瑞典来说还是消费水平会高不少。 So I currently feel the pressure of life is still greater compared to Sweden, whether you are eating or buying clothes or your transportation, it is still a lot higher consumption level compared to Sweden.


Joanne 05:49


对我觉得就比较有意思的一件事情是在瑞士啊至少在日内瓦衣食住行这4个方面，食就是吃饭食物明显要比其他地方贵很多。 I think one of the more interesting things is that in Switzerland, at least in Geneva, food, clothing, housing and transport, these four aspects, food is to eat food is obviously much more expensive than other places.


相较于比如说住宿，举个例子，我现在在日内瓦租的房子可能付1200瑞士法郎可能也差不多1300欧元，我觉得在巴黎房价房租房子的价格是差不多的，但是日内瓦吃饭的价格要比巴黎贵上至少1.5倍到两倍。 Compared to, for example, accommodation, for example, I now rent a house in Geneva may pay 1200 Swiss francs may also be almost 1300 euros, I think the price of housing in Paris is about the same, but the price of food in Geneva is at least 1.5 times more expensive than in Paris to twice.


Chris 06:26


确实是，然后我在瑞典其实住的房子跟我现在在日内瓦住的房子大小呢是差不多的，但是价格大概只要一半左右，所以这个费用对于我来说，作为一个实习生，我觉得还是挺高的。 It’s true, and then I actually lived in a house in Sweden that was about the same size as the one I’m living in now in Geneva, but it’s about half the price, so I think the cost is still pretty high for me as an intern.


Joanne 06:47


对给大家再举一个例子，比如说吃饭的价格，我不知道我的这个我们的，听众朋友们，我看来自世界各地的都有啊，一般吃一顿，在当当地吃一顿中餐，在中餐馆吃一顿饭，人均多少钱？ To give you another example, for example, the price of food, I do not know my this our, listeners, I see from all over the world are ah, generally eat a meal, in the local eat a Chinese meal, eat a meal in a Chinese restaurant, how much per capita?


我在好几个国家住过，比如说在德国，我觉得人均可能15欧元到20欧元差不多，在巴黎也差不多，比如说我在巴黎吃过一个很好吃的自助火锅，自助火锅是一个人35就可以吃到撑，但是你觉得在日内瓦要多少钱？ I have lived in several countries, for example, in Germany, I think per capita may be 15 euros to 20 euros about the same, in Paris is also about the same, for example, I have eaten a very good buffet hot pot in Paris, buffet hot pot is a person 35 can eat to last, but how much do you think in Geneva to?


Chris 07:28


我们刚才吃了一顿晚饭，只有三个菜，然后人均就已经超过30了。 We just had a dinner with only three dishes, and then it was already over 30 per person.


Joanne 07:35


对，人均30欧打底，我觉得吃一顿火锅要人均50~60欧，非常正常，所以我觉得至少是巴黎价格的两倍。 Yes, 30 euros per person to hit the bottom, I think it’s very normal to have a hot pot for 50–60 euros per person, so I think it’s at least twice the price of Paris.


然后还有另外一个价格特别贵的是医疗，我不知道Chris你有没有机会在日内瓦看过病。 And then there’s another one that’s particularly expensive is medical care, and I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to see a doctor in Geneva, Chris.


Chris 07:54


不敢在日内瓦生病？太贵了，然后因为他的保险已经是相对于其他国家来说比较贵了，就意味着它的医疗费用可能相对于来说也会更多一些，不然保险公司他难以用低费用去承担这些高成本的保单，所以说也是从侧面体现出瑞士的医疗系统还是非常昂贵的。 Don’t dare to get sick in Geneva? It’s too expensive, and then because his insurance is already more expensive compared to other countries, it means that it’s probably more expensive compared to the medical costs, otherwise it’s difficult for the insurance company to cover these high cost policies at a low cost, so that also reflects from the side that the Swiss medical system is still very expensive.


Joanne 08:24


除了物价以外，你对瑞士日内瓦有什么好的印象吗？ Do you have any good impressions of Geneva, Switzerland, other than the prices?


Chris 08:30


我觉得日内瓦作为一个欧洲的中心地带的城市，相对于南欧其他的国家，它有一个比较显著的特点，就是他的人会更密集一些。因为我当时从瑞典斯德哥尔摩飞到日内瓦的时候，我突然感觉我回国了，因为人真的太多了，大街上还有地铁上，他们这个叫tram，就不叫地铁叫做电车，对。电车上的人都是非常挤的，这一点是我真的是没有预料到的，因为我很久没有见到过这么多人，所以这一点我觉得是还是非常不一样的。 I think that Geneva, as a city in the heart of Europe, has a distinctive feature compared to other countries in Southern Europe, which is that it is more densely populated. Because when I flew to Geneva from Stockholm, Sweden, I suddenly felt like I was back home, because there were so many people on the street and on the subway, they call this tram, not subway called tram, yes. The people on the tram were very crowded, which I really did not expect, because I have not seen so many people for a long time, so this I think is still very different.


其次就是他们人之间相对来说性格要更外向一些，如果你遇到一个在街上里面遇到一个瑞士人，他可能会跟你用法语去打招呼，这件事情在瑞典是不是很常见的，所以这一点我觉得也是日内瓦一个比较特别的地方。 If you meet a Swiss person in the street, he may greet you in French, which is not very common in Sweden, so I think this is also a special place in Geneva.


Joanne 09:35


我觉得这个可能是因为你是从斯德哥尔摩从瑞典搬过来的，我们所谓的北欧国家在那边国家瑞典的人和人之间保持距离，以及他们的性格比较冷淡，这个是一个stereotype，但是比如说让我来说的话，日内瓦人要对跟巴黎人比起来可能会我觉得更冷淡一点。 I think this may be because you moved from Stockholm from Sweden, we call the Nordic countries in the country over there in Sweden to keep a distance between people and people, as well as their character is more cold, this is a stereotype, but for example, let me say that the people of Geneva to compare with the people of Paris may be I think a little more cold.


但其实我也说不好，但我肯定因为我在南美洲旅游过，要跟比如说秘鲁，跟哥伦比亚相比，肯定是要冷淡不少。 But actually I can’t say, but I’m sure because I’ve traveled in South America, to compare with, for example, Peru, with Colombia, it’s definitely a lot colder.


Chris 10:22


我有点想去一些非洲看看到底是怎么样一个情况。 I kind of want to go to some Africa to see what it’s really like.


Joanne 10:28


然后我觉得很多人跟我描述会说日内瓦很干净，日内瓦跟巴黎比起来会干净很多。 And then I think a lot of people would describe to me that Geneva is very clean, Geneva is a lot cleaner than Paris.


对巴黎是真的，比如说地铁或者街上垃圾还是比较多的。 It’s true for Paris, for example, there’s still more trash in the subway or on the streets.


Chris 10:44


对，这一点我很赞同，因为我之前也去过巴黎街上的大小便的情况是随处可见，但是日内瓦相对于巴黎来比是干净不少，但是它跟北欧的国家相比还是相对来说比较乱和脏，我也不知道是为什么，北欧很多国家也有人吸烟，在大街上也会扔烟头，但是整体上感觉会非常干净嗯。 Yes, I agree with this, because I have been to Paris before, the situation of urinating and defecating on the street is everywhere, but Geneva is quite clean compared to Paris, but it is still relatively messy and dirty compared to the Nordic countries, I do not know why, many Nordic countries also have people smoking and throwing cigarette butts on the street, but the overall feeling will be very clean well.


Joanne 11:14


因为我觉得北欧整体就没有什么人比较少，所以垃圾比较少。其实对日内瓦像你说的游客还是很多的，在街上星期五星期六的晚上，很多的人在湖边party，所以在这个情况下能保持比较干净的这个叫街景街容，我觉得还是挺不容易的。 Because I think the Nordic countries as a whole there is nothing less people, so there is less garbage. In fact, Geneva, like you said, there are still a lot of tourists, in the street on Friday and Saturday night, a lot of people in the lake party, so in this case can maintain a relatively clean streetscape street appearance, I think it is still quite difficult.


总体来说瑞士真的很漂亮，前段时间我跟Chris两个人一起去了日内瓦旁边开车，我们开了一个小时多，两个小时得一个城市小镇叫蒙特勒，这也是我搬到日内瓦以后第一次走出日内瓦去看了一个其他的城市，然后就可以看到背景，有山有湖，非常就非常不一样的一个小镇。 Overall Switzerland is really beautiful, some time ago I went with Chris two people drove next to Geneva, we drove more than an hour, two hours to a city town called Montreux, which is also the first time I moved to Geneva after the first time out of Geneva to see a different city, and then you can see the background, there are mountains and lakes, very on a very different town.


Chris 12:08


对，我觉得瑞士的风景真的是全世界独一无二的，因为它的地理条件，还有它的气候造就了它在多山的情况下还有很多湖，所以他在这样一个有山有水的情况下，它的自然环境的风貌是非常丰富的，然后它有雪山，有草地，有森林，还有一些非常大的湖泊，这些东西聚集在一起，还有一些峡谷，这些东西聚集在一起，让瑞士成为了一个真的是度假的天堂。 Yes, I think the landscape of Switzerland is really unique in the world because of its geography and its climate that it has a lot of lakes in a mountainous situation, so it has a very rich natural environment with mountains and water, and then it has snowy mountains, meadows, forests, and some very large lakes, and these things come together, and there are some canyons, and these things come together to make Switzerland a very beautiful place. All these things come together to make Switzerland a really vacation paradise.


很多国家有一个或两个景点，对于一些国土面积比较大的国家，比如像中国，它可能会涵盖以上所有的啊，风景或者是环境地貌，但是它是一个分布在比较广的范围里，但是瑞士就是在一个很小的面积里，把这些风景和环境聚集在了一起，然后会显得非常精致，所以每一个来过瑞士的人都是对他的环境表示，我觉得可以用叹为观止来形容，对。 Many countries have one or two attractions, and for some countries with a large land area, like China, it may cover all the above ah, landscapes or environmental landscapes, but it is a distribution in a relatively wide range, but Switzerland is in a small area, these landscapes and environments gathered together, and then will look very exquisite, so every person who has been to Switzerland is to his I think it can be described as breathtaking, yes.


Joanne 13:27


然后这也是为什么我觉得在瑞士生活的无论是外国人还是瑞士人，来了以后都会变得更加户外。 And then that’s why I think all the people who live in Switzerland, whether they’re foreigners or Swiss, become more outdoorsy when they come.


我认识的所有人都会每个星期很多人每个星期周末都会出去攀岩或者徒步，或者就会走出日内瓦去看户外的自然风光和风景。 Everyone I know will go out every week and many people will go out every weekend to climb or hike or just get out of Geneva to see the nature and the scenery.


然后还有我发现瑞士人很喜欢做的事情是因为我们有日内瓦湖，所以有很多的水上运动，然后在夏天就有很多人在湖里游泳，但是让我非常惊讶的是冬天也有很多人在湖里游泳，而且现在现在11月份就是日内瓦湖已经挺冷的了，可能水温我觉得10度5度左右，现在就是冬泳和冬…怎么说冬潜，就是diving，我觉得好像在日内瓦也是一个非常流行的活动。 And then there are things that I found that Swiss people like to do because we have Lake Geneva, so there are a lot of water sports, and then in the summer there are a lot of people swimming in the lake, but let me be very surprised is also a lot of people swimming in the lake in winter, and now now in November is Lake Geneva has been quite cold, probably the water temperature I think 10 degrees 5 degrees, now is the winter swimming and winter … How to say winter diving, is diving, I feel as if in Geneva is also a very popular activity.


Chris 14:29


我因为最近没有在湖边观察，我倒是没有看到冬泳的人，但是可以想象，因为瑞士人他们在下雪的时候也是会有一一些类似的活动的。 I did not see winter divers because I did not observe at the lake recently, but I can imagine that because the Swiss they also have a number of similar activities when it snows.


所以我觉得在现在秋天的季节的气温下，他们做这样一些活动也不见得有什么奇怪。 So I don’t think it’s surprising that they do some of these activities in the current fall season temperatures.


Joanne 14:55


对就围绕这个湖瑞士人有很多活动，比如说夏天的时候，我们室友有三个室友买了一个充气的充气的怎么说小船，然后就可以抱着小充气的小船在湖面上漂流，然后一直可以漂流到法国边境，就沿着河可以漂流到基本上靠近法国的地方。 For example, in the summer, three of our roommates bought an inflatable boat, and then they could float around the lake in the inflatable boat, and then they could float all the way to the French border, and they could float along the river basically near France.


然后在夏天大家在充气小船上面喝啤酒，带一些零食，然后比如说热了也可以下湖游过泳，因为日内瓦湖的水和这条河的水真的非常的干净，非常的清澈，所以在夏天是一个也是非常流行的活动。 And then in the summer people drink beer on top of the inflatable boat, bring some snacks, and then for example when it’s hot you can also swim across the lake, because the water of Lake Geneva and the water of this river is really very clean and very clear, so in the summer is a also a very popular activity.


Chris 15:44


对另外一点就是我刚来日内瓦感到非常惊讶的事就是日内瓦湖的干净程度真的是太干净了。我第一次在日内瓦过桥的时候，从桥上就可以清楚的看到湖底，这个是我之前除了去了东南亚之外，看到有这样类似的场景之外，日内瓦算是唯一一个地方了。 The other thing that surprised me when I first came to Geneva was how clean Lake Geneva is. The first time I crossed the bridge in Geneva, I could see the bottom of the lake clearly from the bridge, and this is the only place I’ve ever seen a scene like this before, other than in Southeast Asia, and Geneva is kind of the only place.


对，所以他的日内瓦湖里有很多的天鹅，鸭子，我觉得这个地方真的是非常适合这些动物生活。 Right, so he has a lot of swans, ducks in Lake Geneva, and I think this place is really perfect for these animals to live.


Joanne 16:23


真的非常的干净。就像Chris说的，我以前也从来没有看到过这么干净，能一眼望到湖底的湖，而且是在城市中央的这么一个很大的湖。比如说在夏天晴天的时候可以清楚的看到那些天鹅和鸭子的影子在湖底。 It’s really very clean. Like Chris said, I’ve never seen such a clean lake that you can see to the bottom of the lake before, and it’s such a big lake in the middle of the city. For example, in the summer on a clear day you can clearly see the shadows of the swans and ducks at the bottom of the lake.


当时我记得我给我爸爸妈妈拍了一张照片，在中国基本上是看不到这么干净的湖的。 I remember taking a picture of my mom and dad at the time, but you basically can’t see such a clean lake in China.


Chris 16:52


对，包括斯德哥尔摩它是一个很多岛组成的城市，它中间也有很多湖，但是因为斯德哥尔摩的湖是来自它是跟海相接的，所以它也很漂亮很蓝，但是它不够清澈，像日内瓦湖它可能是雪山融水比较多，所以说它真的是非常干净，这一点真的是很难有其他的地方有相同的地理环境去造就一个这样独特的景观。 Yes, Stockholm is a city of many islands, and there are many lakes in the middle of it, but because the lake in Stockholm is from the sea, it is also very beautiful and blue, but it is not clear enough, like Lake Geneva, it may be more snow melt water, so it is really very clean, and it is really hard to have other places with the same geographical environment to create such a It’s really hard to have other places with the same geography to create such a unique landscape.


Joanne 17:26


对好了说了这么多，其实瑞士真的是一个风景很漂亮的地方，然后其实是想说欢迎大家来玩，但是要有钱才能在瑞士玩的开心，不然的话在这儿可能每天只能吃麦当劳肯德基，不然度一个假还是挺贵的，所以我都不太敢邀请朋友来日内瓦找我玩。 I would like to say that you are welcome to come and play, but you have to have money to have fun in Switzerland, otherwise you can only eat McDonald’s and KFC here every day, otherwise it’s quite expensive to take a vacation, so I don’t dare to invite my friends to come to Geneva to play with me.


Chris 17:52


对，真的是，哪怕吃汉堡也每天会有很高的成本。主要是瑞士的住宿还是非常贵的，每天平均一一晚上大概在700~800人民币左右之间，所以说这就是很便宜的，所以说对于大部分游客的话还是费用蛮高的。 Yes, really, even eating a burger will cost a lot every day. The main thing is that accommodation in Switzerland is still very expensive, the average one night per day is about 700~800 RMB, so that’s very cheap, so it’s still quite expensive for most tourists.


Joanne 18:18


好的，谢谢Chris今天做客，我们下一期节目再见了，拜拜。 Okay, thanks Chris for being our guest today, we’ll see you next time, bye.


Chris 18:25


谢谢大家，有机会再跟大家聊一聊，拜拜。 Thank you all, I’ll talk to you again sometime, bye.