Episode 41 | 数字游民的新生活？

XQ 00:02

大家好，欢迎又来到我们新的一集，瞎扯学中文，今天又有一个新的朋友和大家见面。 Hello everyone, welcome again to another new episode of our, Convo Chinese, and today we have a new friend to meet with.

Zhilin 00:18

Hello大家好，我是Zhilin。 Hello everybody, I’m Zhilin.

XQ 00:21

这里你可以要不要先自我介绍一下，你在瑞士然后再做什么，现在我们是怎么认识的？ Here can you want to introduce yourself first, what are you doing in Switzerland and then, now how did we meet?

Zhilin 00:28

好，我和Xinqing是在一个朋友的生日聚会上认识的，觉得挺投缘的，然后就一起hang out在过去几个月。很高兴认识Xinqing，然后很高兴来到这个平台。我是来自江西赣州，是中国人，然后在不同地方接受过教育，我在香港上过学，然后在美国在英国念过书，然后在尼日利亚上过班，也在日内瓦上过班，现在的话是回到了国际红十字日内瓦的总部在这里工作。 Well, Xinqing and I met at a friend’s birthday party and felt quite a connection, and then hung out together for the past few months. I’m glad to meet Xinqing, and then I’m glad to come to this platform. I’m from Ganzhou, Jiangxi province, Chinese, and I’ve been educated in different places, I went to school in Hong Kong, I studied in the US and the UK, I went to class in Nigeria, I went to class in Geneva, and now I’m back working here at the International Red Cross headquarters in Geneva.

XQ 01:07

对，所以其实Zhilin也是在世界各大洲很多国家很多城市都生活过，经历非常丰富，然后其实今天想跟Zhilin聊的一个话题也蛮有意思的，中文叫数字游民，或者叫居无定所的一个概念，英文叫digital nomad。 Yes, so actually Zhilin has lived in many countries and cities in all continents and has had a lot of experience, and today I want to talk to Zhilin about a topic that is quite interesting.

因为Zhilin其实你也在日内瓦生活了差不多两年两三年了，但是你有在想试一下未来的可能一年两年会去，你可以跟大家解释一下你向往的或者现在在这个计划的生活是个什么样子的？ Because Zhilin, you’ve actually been living in Geneva for almost two, two, three years, but you’re thinking about trying out the future, maybe one or two years, can you explain to everyone what kind of life you’re looking forward to or what kind of life you’re planning now?

Zhilin 01:46

其实之前就很早就听过nomad这个概念，然后其实概念也不是说特别的新，因为有很多比如说coder或者是做自由工作者，很早就开始这种生活模式，但是我想也是 owing to covid。 Actually, I’ve heard of nomad before, and then the concept is not particularly new, because there are a lot of people like coder or freelance workers who started this life pattern a long time ago, but I think it’s also owing to covid.

XQ 02:06

对，因为covid的原因，对。 Yeah, due to covid, yeah.

Zhilin 02:08

因为Covid原因，大家对这种远程工作有更强的接受度，然后现在其实有很多的公司都开始允许他的员工可以去世界各地工作上班，然后远程办公，我现在就是要跳槽到这样一家公司，可以让我在不同的地方去接入去工作，所以我是非常向往的，对，因为之前也是在不同的地方生活过，也很喜欢这种自由的感觉，能够在不同的国家，不同的community，不同的社区里面和不同的人不同的文化去融入这种生活方式，我是非常向往的，所以也会在下个月就会离开日内瓦了，然后就会在暑假夏天要开启旅程 Because of covid, people have a stronger acceptance of this kind of remote work, and then now there are actually a lot of companies that are starting to allow their employees to go to work around the world to work, and then telecommute, and I’m just going to jump into a company that allows me to access to work in different places, so I’m very much looking forward to that, yes, because I’ve lived in different places before, and I’m also very I like this feeling of freedom, to be able to live in a different country, a different community, a different community and different people and different cultures to integrate this way of life, I am very eager, so also in the next month will leave Geneva, and then will be in the summer to start the journey

XQ 02:57

其实我觉得有很多的数字游民, 一开始的话是为了比如说节省生活成本，比如说像你说到的coder，比如说软件工程师，码农。在中文我们叫码农，programmer，他们其实不需要在很贵的城市，比如说不需要在伦敦工作，很多其实在葡萄牙里斯本也有很多的码农在非洲国家，比如说在肯尼亚的沿海城市，他工作只需要有比较快的网络，只要能够有电脑有网络就可以工作，其实没必要。 In fact, I think there are a lot of digital nomads, at the beginning, for example, to save the cost of living, for example, like you said to the coder, for example, software engineers, coders. In Chinese we call code farmers, programmer, they actually do not need to work in very expensive cities, for example, do not need to work in London, a lot of actually in Lisbon, Portugal, there are also a lot of code farmers in African countries, for example, in the coastal cities of Kenya, he only needs to work with a relatively fast network, as long as you can have a computer with the network can work, in fact, it is not necessary.



对，这样可以节省很多的生活成本。 Yes, this can save a lot of cost of living.



然后其实我觉得比较巧的也比较投缘的是Zhilin的男朋友和大家知道我的老公David，他们之前也体验过类似的居无定所数字游民的生活，然后比如说David他很长一段时间就在各个城市每个城市待3个月6个月。 Then I think it’s a coincidence that Zhilin’s boyfriend and my husband David, as you know, have also experienced a similar life as a digital nomad, and then David, for example, spent 3 months and 6 months in each city for a long time.



对，然后他们还聊得挺投缘的，我觉得这样的生活一个是需要一种极简的生活主义，对吧？ Yeah, and they had a good conversation, and I think this kind of life requires a minimalist approach to life, right?

Zhilin 04:07

对，没那么的极简，就是像我们现在去哪里，基本就背一个背包，里面要能够装得下我们所需要的所有的最基本的东西，我觉得也是给生活做减法的一个一个很好的方式，你会去内省，去审视自己的生活究竟需要什么样的东西。 Yes, it’s not that minimalist, just like when we go anywhere, we basically just carry a backpack that can hold all the basic things we need, I think it’s also a good way to subtract from life, you will introspect and look at what kind of things you need in life.



我会发现一些，比如说我现在基本都没有包包，就没有名牌包包或者怎样，我拿一个tote bag, 这种帆布包我就能出门，然后很多时候我的衣服是有很多口袋的，我就基本都把东西放在衣服里面，然后我们现在购买衣服其实都很少买，就很少进行这种快消费，就觉得特别浪费，我们现在买入任何一个piece的东西，一件衣服或者是任何一件物品都会去考虑它的重量，它的使用度，我们会用多少次这种重复使用率来去看，能不能把这个东西归入我们的nomad package，就是要去游牧的行囊中，对能不能都会做这种审视。 I will find some, for example, I now basically do not have a bag, there is no brand-name bags or how, I take a tote bag, this kind of canvas bag I can go out, and then many times my clothes are a lot of pockets, I basically put things in the clothes, and then we now buy clothes are actually rarely bought, on this kind of fast consumption, it feels particularly wasteful, we now We now buy any piece of stuff, a piece of clothing or any item will consider its weight, its use, we will use how many times this repeated use rate to see, can we put this thing into our nomad package, is to go to the nomadic bag, can we do this kind of review.

XQ 05:16

对你现在比如说下个月开始开启你的游牧生活，大概你准备带多大的一个背包几公斤。 To you now for example next month to start your nomadic life, probably how big a backpack are you going to bring a few kilos.

Zhilin 05:25

这是一个好问题。 That’s a good question.



我们现在游牧生活计划的是一旦开始可能就要一年都不会回到，比如说我们家在中国在新加坡，所以真的是要就是要怕就是要去打包所有想要的东西，然后我们也给自己一点点余地，可能想要买回一些纪念品，买回一些值得纪念的东西，所以我们现在是准备两个人每人一个背包一个backpack，然后里面可能大概装8~10公斤的东西，然后再有一个行李箱，我们会去托运，寄运的行李箱可能里面不止刚开始出发的时候肯定是很轻的，可能不超过10公斤，然后可能会慢慢加上一些东西，现在是我们大概的打。 We are now nomadic life plan is once we start may have to a year will not return, such as our home in China in Singapore, so really is to be is to be afraid is to go to pack all the things you want, and then we also give themselves a little leeway, may want to buy back some souvenirs, buy back some things worth remembering, so we are now ready for two people each a backpack a backpack, and then it may probably contain about 8 ~ 10 kg of things, and then there is a suitcase, we will go to the consignment, the consignment of the suitcase may be more than just the beginning of the departure is certainly very light, may not exceed 10 kg, and then may slowly add some things, now is our approximate hit.

XQ 06:17

对。之前就是David他在游牧的生活的时候，我记得它有一个就是飞机上可以直接叫什么不用托运的，直接可以携带的那些行李箱，登机箱。它应该是一个10公斤的登机箱，所以它所有的东西都在登机箱里，所以David当时就他刚刚跟我预计就是在日内瓦碰见的时候，他只有可能三件衬衫，三三件T恤，然后三条内裤，然后一条裤子就这样子。 Right. Before is David when he was in the nomadic life, I remember it has one is what can be called directly on the plane without having to check in, directly can carry those suitcases, boarding boxes. It should be a 10 kilogram boarding box, so it’s all in the boarding box, so David at that time he just expected with me is to meet in Geneva when he only had maybe three shirts, three or three T-shirts, and then three underwear, and then a pair of pants on this.



对，但他现在因为跟我结了婚，我们现在在日内瓦了，所以我们就有了一个settle down，更加定居的生活，他的东西也越来越多，但一开始的时候真的是非常的计件。 Yeah, but now he’s married to me and we’re in Geneva now, so we have a settle down, more settled life, and he’s getting more and more stuff, but at the beginning it was really very piece-meal.

Zhilin 07:05

我现在也有这种感觉，就是我们上周去西班牙旅行，我发现我就只有两条裙子可以换着穿， I feel the same way now, that is, we went on a trip to Spain last week and I realized that I only had two dresses to change into.



对，因为很多衣服要买的时候都会觉得我不会带上，我不会把它带上路我就不买了，所以现在也是在想说怎么样可以一边继续保持是一定程度的时尚感，然后另外一边又不要加重自己的行李。 Yes, because a lot of clothes to buy when I think I will not bring, I will not take it on the road I will not buy, so now is also thinking about how to continue to maintain is a certain degree of fashion sense, and then the other side and do not aggravate their luggage.

XQ 07:30

对你原来生活的东西准备怎么处理呢？ What are you going to do with the things you used to live with?

Zhilin 07:35

原来生活的东西要做减法，我的未婚夫fiance他是一个很会做减法的人，所以他会帮我我们一起可能会。 My fiancé fiance, he’s a very good subtractor, so he’ll help me and we’ll probably do it together.

XQ 07:49

捐掉一些东西，送掉送给朋友，对，然后会比如说储存在什么地方吗？ Donate something, give it away to a friend, yeah, and then would it be like stored somewhere?

Zhilin 07:58

应该会把它运回新加坡和中国，对放回家里。对。 It would be shipped back to Singapore and China, yeah put it back home. Right.

XQ 08:04

我觉得比如说像 David，我知道他还是在美国的家里有一个他爸爸妈妈的储藏空间，所以还是有一些大件可以放那儿，对，但是随身携带的东西非常的小，对。 I think for example, like David, I know he still has a storage space at his mom and dad’s house in the U.S., so there’s still some big stuff that can go there, yeah, but the carry-on stuff is very small, yeah.



对，然后刚才我们就在讨论有一件东西，因为David他是一个很喜欢站着工作的人，然后他它有一个怎么说一个三脚架，上面有一个小的桌子，三脚架非常的轻，它可以随身的携带在他的行李箱里，然后无论在什么地方，比如说在咖啡厅或者在公园，甚至在马路上，只要他想工作的时候，他就可以拿出来，然后把三角可以伸缩的三脚架伸长，上面有个小桌子，它就可以开始站着工作了 Yes, and then we were just discussing one thing, because David is a person who likes to work standing up, and then he has a how to say a tripod with a small table on it, the tripod is very light, it can be carried in his suitcase, and then no matter where, for example, in the coffee shop or in the park, or even on the road, whenever he wants to work, he He can take it out, and then the triangle can be extended tripod, a small table on top, it can start to stand and work!



然后Zhilin的未婚夫就非常的激动。 And then Zhilin’s fiancé got very excited.

Zhilin 08:56

对他超激动超开心， David非常的大方，说可以把可以站立的桌子送给他，所以他非常开心，可能我觉得他会用他会把这个桌子也放到行李箱里去，带到不同的地方，用它来工作。 super excited and happy for him, David was very generous and said he could give him the standing table, so he was very happy, maybe I think he will use he will put this table also into the suitcase and take it to different places and work with it.

XQ 09:13

对，送给你们的游牧生活的离别礼物，开启你们游牧生活的礼物，对。 Yes, a parting gift for your nomadic life, a gift to start your nomadic life, yes.

Zhilin 09:19

谢谢他很开心，对。 Thanks he was happy, yes.

XQ 09:21 XQ 09:21

我觉得像这样的东西其实还蛮难想象的，你可能要接受一些生活质量的降低，比如说像如果你要一个很好的工作的环境，可能你想要一个显示器一个monitor，然后你想要一个actually proper一个好的桌子，但如果你要游牧的生活，你可能就要接受一些生活质量的打折。 I think something like this is actually quite hard to imagine, you might have to accept some reduction in quality of life, for example like if you want a good working environment, maybe you want a monitor a monitor, and then you want an ACTUALLY proper a good desk, but if you want a nomadic life, you might have to accept some discount in quality of life.

Zhilin 09:46

的确是这样，对，也挺看你能够租到什么样的房子，如果租到的地方有很好的这种办公场所给你的话，其实也是ok的。然后在很多城市对digital Norma对有数字游民很友好的地方，它其实是有这种共享工作的空间，你其实也可以达到一个好的工作环境是没有问题的。 Indeed, yes, it also kinda depends on what kind of house you can rent, and if the place you rent has a very nice kind of office space for you, it’s actually ok. And then in many cities to digital Norma to have digital nomads very friendly place, it is actually this shared work space, you can actually reach a good working environment is no problem.

XQ 10:08

对，然后我有一个问题可能有两个问题，一个是在你的打算当中，每个国家你准备待多长时间，然后还有一个是你怎么解决签证的问题，因为我觉得我也很想过这个生活，但我作为中国人的话，签证是一个非常大的障碍，我们去所有的国家基本上都需要申请签证。 Yeah, and then I have a question that probably has two questions, one is how long are you going to stay in each country in your intention, and then another is how do you solve the visa problem, because I think I would love to live this life, but my visa is a very big obstacle if I’m Chinese, we need to apply for a visa to go to all the countries basically.

Zhilin 10:29

第一个问题去不同的国家待多长时间，我们是希望可以住的稍微久一点，然后去深入不同的community，我们是习惯了以前travel是非常 intense，那种travel就是高强度的旅行，去一个地方就会去看很多东西，然后把每天排的满满的，我们就现在想慢慢放慢一点节奏走，比如说去一个地方，我们会先看住一个星期看喜不喜欢，如果喜欢的话延长到三个月，我们发现三个月有点像是一个sweet spot。 The first question is how long to stay in different countries, we are hoping to live a little longer, and then go deeper into different communities, we are used to the previous travel is very intense, the kind of travel is high-intensity travel, to a place will go to see a lot of things, and then the daily schedule full, we would now like to slowly slow down a little Rhythm go, for example, to go to a place, we will first see live a week to see like it or not, if like it to extend to three months, we found that three months is a bit like a sweet spot.



一个最佳的点，你还不会完全觉得被这个地方它的一些不好的地方所感到就是困扰，也不会觉得太过新鲜，就是一个挺不错的时间段，这是我们自己旅游觉得三个月挺好的一个时间，如果很喜欢的话可以继续住半年之类，然后再去附近不同的地方玩耍，你有推荐过内罗毕吗？ One of the best spots, you will not feel completely disturbed by the place it is some bad places, also will not feel too much new, is a pretty good time period, this is our own travel think three months is a good time, if you like it very much, you can continue to live six months or so, and then go to different places nearby to play, have you ever recommended Nairobi?



所以我们有想去内罗毕先住三个月，然后可能会去坦桑尼亚，会去乌干达，会去周边的一些国家，就是看看那里的风土人情。 So we have thought about going to Nairobi for three months first, and then maybe Tanzania, we will go to Uganda, we will go to some of the surrounding countries, just to see the customs and the people there.

XQ 11:45

所以你可能会租一个短租的airbnb，对。 So you would probably rent a short term airbnb, yeah.

Zhilin 11:49

应该会这样，对短租，然后去不同的地方去周边国家看一看，对。 It would be like that, yes short term rentals and then go to different places to see the surrounding countries, yes.

XQ 11:55

刚才你提到这些国家都不需要签证是吗？主要是你在看不需要签证的国家。 Just now you mentioned that none of these countries require a visa, right? Mostly you’re looking at countries that don’t require a visa.

Zhilin 12:01

对，这也是一个策略，就是因为我的国籍是中国国籍，那么我们有一些地方是需要另外升签证就挺麻烦的，所以我们已经有一个Excel file，就是Excel表格去看哪些国家是需要什么样的签证，是落地签还是免签，可以待多久，然后在不同的地方，它的期限比如说是满90天你要离开的话，是离开之后就可以立马回来，还是说离开之后要满多少天才可以回来，就这其中其实有很多的计划要做，也有很多的这种research这些你要去调研研究一下具体的政策是什么样的，所以其实对有很多的准备工作要做，对。 Yes, this is also a strategy, is because my nationality is Chinese nationality, then we have some places is the need for another visa is quite troublesome, so we already have an Excel file, is the Excel table to see which countries are the need for what kind of visa, is the visa on arrival or visa-free, can stay for how long, and then in different places, it is the duration of, for example, full 90 days you want to If you want to leave, you can come back immediately after leaving, or how many days after leaving can you come back, which actually has a lot of planning to do, there are also a lot of this research you have to go to research to study the specific policy is what kind of, so in fact, there is a lot of preparation to do, yes.

XQ 12:44

然后你觉得比如说在游牧生活，你每一个地方只待三个月，会不会觉得没有办法交朋友？没有办法深入的比，如果你跟一个朋友见面，然后说我两个星期以后就要走了，那个朋友可能也不想投入很多的时间，对吧？这个会不会是一个问题？ Then you think for example in nomadic life, you only stay in each place for three months, will not feel no way to make friends? There’s no way to go deeper than, if you meet with a friend and say I’m leaving in two weeks, that friend probably doesn’t want to invest a lot of time, right? Would that be a problem?

Zhilin 13:05

这的确是一个困扰。但是一我觉得很幸运的是我和未婚夫Edward我们是互就是彼此的best friend是最好的朋友，所以你永远有一个最好的朋友在身边，这一点觉得很幸运。第二的话我们的确在过去也有交过朋友，就是来自世界各地的，是因为我们旅行很多，我们相信就是在这个地方结识的朋友可能我们要离开，但是我们会回来的，会再见的，总会在其他地方再遇到，所以其实还是很开放的去想要交更多的朋友，然后和大家保持这种联络。 It does seem to be a nuisance. But one, I think it’s very fortunate that my fiancé Edward and I are each other’s best friend, so you always have a best friend around, and that’s very fortunate. Secondly, we did make friends in the past, that is, from all over the world, because we travel a lot, we believe that is in this place to make friends may we have to leave, but we will come back, will see again, always in other places to meet again, so in fact is still very open to want to make more friends, and then and everyone to maintain this contact.



对，我觉得现在信息技术都这么发达，其实大家保持联络方式有很多，不一定说一定要在同一个地方待很久住在一起，然后这三个月也不是说定。性的，只能待三个月，我们很有可能会待半年一年，甚至在这两我们现在计划两三年可能都会做这个数字游民，我们可以在每年都回来这个地方都有可能对。 Yes, I think nowadays information technology is so advanced, in fact, there are many ways to keep in touch with each other, it does not necessarily mean that we have to stay in the same place for a long time and live together, and then the three months are not fixed. Sexual, can only stay three months, we are likely to stay six months a year, even in the two we are now planning two or three years may do this digital nomads, we can come back to this place in every year are possible.

XQ 14:09

对，但我刚才就在想说，你觉得做数字游民，对你的经济或者财务上面的要求？是需要你有很多的储蓄才能尝试生活，比如说，你觉得对或者说你要对自己的财务状况比较稳定，比较就是有信心，才会去做这个选择吗？ Yes, but I was just thinking, do you think that being a digital nomad requires you to be financially or financially sound? Does it require you to have a lot of savings in order to try to make a living, for example, do you feel right or do you have to be more financially stable and more just confident in your own financial situation before you make that choice?

Zhilin 14:33

我觉得做财务计划这是一项非常重要的能力，你必须要对自己的人生有一个大概的规划，像我们肯定会看自己的储蓄，然后会去做一个这种 budget planning。 I think doing financial planning is a very important ability, you have to have a rough plan for your life, like we would definitely look at our savings and then we would go do a budget planning of this kind.

XQ 14:49

财务的规划。 Financial planning.

Zhilin 14:51

对会去算一下生活成本。 Yeah would go and figure out the cost of living.

XQ 14:54

你觉得生活成本是会提高还是降低？ Do you think the cost of living will go up or down?



因为其实你住在日内瓦也很贵，所以反而你住在内罗毕其他城市可能会生活成本可能会降低，但是你要算上旅费短，短租的一些东西，所以我不知道你有没有算过账。 Because actually you live in Geneva is also very expensive, so instead you live in other cities in Nairobi may cost of living may be lower, but you have to count some things like short travel costs, short term rentals, so I don’t know if you have done the math.

Zhilin 15:11

对我们预估的应该会，这也是我们的目标，就是比日内瓦的生活成本一定要更低。因为日内瓦真的太贵了，不划算，但去其他地方的确像你说的你要买飞机票，然后我们可能很注重体验，去体验不同的东西，比如说你要去看safari，就是看野生动物大迁徙，这些都需要另外的这种花费，但我们觉得是值得的。 To our prediction should be, and that’s our goal, is that the cost of living must be lower than in Geneva. Because Geneva is really too expensive to be cost effective, but to go elsewhere you do have to buy plane tickets like you said, and then we probably focus a lot on the experience, to experience different things, like if you’re going to see safari, that is, to see the great wildlife migration, all these need another



这方面可能要平衡一下，但我觉得整体的成本可能还是会生活成本是会低的，但是travel旅行成本不一定对。 This aspect may have to be balanced, but I think the overall cost may still be the cost of living is going to be low, but travel travel costs are not necessarily right.

XQ 15:50

然后Edward也会和你一起，因为他的工作也是比较可以远程工作比较灵活的，对你们的时差会有问题吗？什么样的工作会可以允许你无论在什么时间都可以工作？ And then Edward will also be with you, because his job is also more flexible in terms of being able to work remotely, will there be a problem with your time difference? What kind of job would allow you to work no matter what time it is?

Zhilin 16:05

这其实也是一个考量，就是我们在列不同的国家的时候，之所以是大概定了在非洲的一些国家和南美以及加勒比海的一些国家，还有欧洲一些国家，是因为我们的工作大部分同事都在欧洲和美国，这个样子的话时差方面我们是可以去 Handle可以去接受的。 This is actually a consideration, that is, when we list different countries, the reason is probably set in some countries in Africa and some countries in South America and the Caribbean, and some countries in Europe, because most of our colleagues are working in Europe and the United States, this way we can go to Handle can go to accept the time difference.



比如说如果我在中国，那和我的同事们，在纽约的同事，那就是12个小时的时差，就是白天黑夜的颠倒就非常的痛苦，所以就不准备在亚洲待太太长的时间，对这方面是一个重要的考量，就基本不想给同事添麻烦，然后也同时要保证工作质量工作时长，对这也挺重要的。 For example, if I am in China, that and my colleagues, colleagues in New York, that is 12 hours of time difference, that is, the reversal of day and night is very painful, so not ready to stay in Asia for a long time, this is an important consideration, on the basic do not want to give colleagues trouble, and then also to ensure the quality of work work hours, on this is also quite important.

XQ 16:51

对，因为其实欧洲和美国之间也有大概六七个小时的时间时差，所以相当于你的未婚夫的客户同事基本上在欧洲时区，然后你的其实是在美洲。 Yes, because there is actually a time difference of about six or seven hours between Europe and the United States, so it’s equivalent to your fiancé’s client colleagues basically being in the European time zone, and then yours actually being in the Americas.

Zhilin 17:05

美国时区，对，所以我们预估的是有一部分时间，我们的晚上是需要工作的，对，可能我的早上不工作，但是我的晚上需要工作，这样对。 American time zone, right, so what we’re predicting is that there’s a portion of the time that our evenings are required to work, right, maybe my mornings don’t work, but my evenings need to work, so that’s right.

XQ 17:17

Ok然后你在每一个地方待着的时候还是会去旅游，会看一下当地的这些特色的地方，对。 Ok and then you still travel when you’re staying in each place and will look at these local places that are special, right.

Zhilin 17:25

因为我的新工作是4天工作制，所以我的周五和周末都是空闲的，我就觉得我可以在附近可能就是做一个长周末这样的旅行规划，这是可能的，对。 Because my new job is a 4 day work week, so my Fridays and weekends are free and I just thought I could be around to maybe just do a long weekend of planning a trip like that, which is possible, right.

XQ 17:39

而且你的工资其实是美元的，我觉得现在我其实还挺难想象这种非常新颖的工作安排工作制度，因为其实我觉得对我爸妈来说，30年前这个根本不能想象一个公司会允许你在世界任何地方工作，然后可以 somehow雇佣你跟你签合同，给你发工资对吧？ And you’re actually paid in dollars, I think it’s actually pretty hard for me now to imagine this very novel system of working arrangements working because I actually think for my parents, 30 years ago this was not even conceivable that a company would allow you to work anywhere in the world and then could somehow hire you to sign a contract with you and pay you a salary right?



而且你想30年前，我爸妈会在一个公司工作一辈子，工作30年，然后后来慢慢的到了我们这一代，就会工作四五年不开心了就跳槽，工作两三年就跳槽，然后code之后就可以远程工作，远程工作每天在家两三天。 And you think 30 years ago, my parents would work in a company for the rest of their lives, for 30 years, and then slowly to our generation, they would work four or five years and be unhappy and jump ship, work two or three years and jump ship, and then after code, they could work remotely, work remotely from home two or three days a day.



然后最后一个阶段我觉得可能就是像你这样的未来的，大家可能都会这样子完全灵活的工作制度，对甚至不用工作。 And then the last stage I think is probably the future like you, everyone will probably be like this completely flexible work system, yes even without work.

Zhilin 18:36

现在人工智能非常发达，大家可以我真的觉得未来有一天可能我们都会有基本工资，然后其实大家工作量是非常少的，我觉得这也是人类进步的一个方向，就是用机器代替人工。 Now artificial intelligence is very advanced, we can I really think that one day in the future may we will all have a basic salary, and then in fact everyone workload is very small, I think this is also a direction of human progress, is to replace manual labor with machines.



就是人生下来，你想想看过了20岁之后，你要奉献80%时间在工作，就为别人创造价值。 It’s life, you think about it after you’ve seen 20 years old, you have to dedicate 80% of your time at work, on creating value for others.



我们其实给自己的时间很少，让自己的这种创造力去发挥去体验去享受的时间是偏少的，尤其是差距，中国和其他一些发达国家的差距是很大的，像我和你我们都在国外工作过，我们知道在这边比如说你5:00就可以下班，或者是5:30就可以下班，在国内你有996工作制，但是工作时长是很长的，真的希望就有一天大家可以用更多的时间去体验这个世界，而不是说天天埋头工作，对。 We actually give ourselves very little time, let their own creativity to play to experience to enjoy the time is on the low side, especially the gap, China and some other developed countries is a big gap, like me and you we have worked abroad, we know that in this side, for example, you can get off work at 5:00, or 5:30 can get off work, in the country you have 996 work system, but the working hours I really hope that one day we can use more time to experience the world, rather than say every day buried in work, yes.

XQ 19:36

但是我的工作也不能5点下班，我就觉得说我的工作还是得6点6:30下班，对，但我同意，但我有的时候又觉得像我们这样的讨论，其实是有一点在发达国家或者我们都是白领，而且在国外工作，可能我就特别想探讨的是我的很多朋友或者在国内，他们可能对自己的工作现状并不是很满意，但他们又没有办法去做一个决定，这么洒脱的说 ok我现在要过游牧生活，我要出国，觉得还是很对很多人来说是一个很难的决定，对。 But I can’t get off work at 5:00, I think that my job still has to get off work at 6:00 6:30, yes, but I agree, but I sometimes think that discussions like ours, in fact, there is a little bit in the developed world or we are all white-collar, and work abroad, maybe I would like to explore is that many of my friends or in the country, they may not be very satisfied with the status of their own work, but they have no way to do a But they have no way to make a decision so spontaneous to say ok I want to live a nomadic life now, I want to go abroad, think it’s still a very for many people is a difficult decision, yes.

Zhilin 20:14

其实我们也没有说特别计划过，我们一定要过游牧生活，就这个想法还没有成型，也就是在三个月之前我们才有这个想法的，很多时候人是跟着机遇走的，我觉得有个开放的态度迎接生活，给你的各种各样这样的机会，当他来的时候就抓住，然后跟他一起走。 In fact, we also did not say that we have a special plan, we must live a nomadic life, on this idea has not yet formed, that is, before three months we have this idea, many times people are following the opportunity to go, I think there is an open attitude to meet life, to give you a variety of such opportunities, when he came to seize, and then go with him.



对，我觉得有个开放的态度。 Yes, I think there is an open attitude.

XQ 20:41

像你爸妈会不会很担心？ Like are your parents worried?

Zhilin 20:46

他们还好，因为我一直基本都是这个风格，去很多在他们眼里有一些危险的地方，在非洲一些地方，所以我觉得他们习惯了慢慢的过程，他们已经接受了，他的女儿会在外面到处闯，然后我爸爸是一个他的风险接受度很高的一个人，因为他自己也是企业家，所以他其实是很欢迎，也很支持我去各个地方看世界，然后去做更多去迎接挑战，做更多有挑战性的东西 They’re okay, because I’ve always basically been this style, going to a lot of places that are dangerous in their eyes, in some places in Africa, so I think they’re used to the slow process, they’ve accepted that his daughter will be out there breaking in everywhere, and then my dad is a person whose risk acceptance is very high, because he’s an entrepreneur himself, so he actually welcomes and supports me going to to see the world, and then to do more to meet the challenges, to do more challenging things

XQ 21:20

所以我觉得其实有比较支持的父母，然后包括我觉得伴侣就是你的partner，未婚夫他也习惯游牧生活，他可以跟你一起旅行，然后刚才你有说到，无论你们有没有交到新的其他的朋友，你们两个是互相最好的朋友，我觉得这个也是旅行当中很重要的一点。 So I think there are actually more supportive parents, and then including I think the partner is your partner, fiancé he is also used to nomadic life, he can travel with you, and then just now you have said, whether you have not made new other friends, you two are each other’s best friends, I think this is also a very important point in travel.

Zhilin 21:40

对有这种一个支持网络系统就support network是非常重要的。 It’s very important to have a support network for this kind of support network system.

XQ 21:47

对，因为说白了这个决定还是其实挺冒险的，你也可能在想的时候会有一些担心，会有一些也是一种新的生活。 Yes, because frankly this decision is still actually quite risky, you may also have some worries when you think about it, there will be some also a new life.

Zhilin 21:56

对是这样子的，我不会建议说就是一瞬间就从朝九晚五的工作，然后跳到完全的游牧，因为我们也是一步一步来，我觉得身体你的心灵状态都是要去适应的。 Yes it’s like that, I wouldn’t suggest that it’s just an instant jump from a 9 to 5 job and then to full nomadic, because we also take it one step at a time, I think the body your state of mind are going to adapt.



你可能先从你可以有一个这种混合的工作制，然后慢慢来以及你多去有一些国外的这种 exposure 经历。 You might start with the fact that you can have a mixed work system and then take your time as well as you go and have some more exposure abroad.



旅游学习，不同的慢慢来。 Travel to learn, different slowly.

XQ 22:26

对，然后习惯我觉得是开放的态度，不同的文化，包括用不同的语言，有的时候就算我们会说英语到了新的国家，也是完全不通，语言不通，但是如果你是比较开放的，比较有冒险的态度，哪里都可以生活都可以交朋友，对好。 Yes, and then the habit I think is open attitude, different cultures, including in different languages, sometimes even if we can speak English to a new country, it is completely impassable, language impassable, but if you are more open, more adventurous attitude, where you can live can make friends, right good.



好激动，我也为你激动，但是我们也很伤心，因为Zhilin要离开我们下周就要走出来的。 So excited, I’m excited for you too, but we’re also sad because Zhilin is leaving we’re walking out next week.

Zhilin 22:52 Zhilin 22:52

一定会回来看你了，对，然后你也可以来找我们玩。 Will definitely come back to see you now, yes, and then you can come and play with us too.

XQ 22:56

对，好的，今天就聊到这，谢谢Zhilin，希望我们下一次可以远程连线，然后可以跟大家在update Zhilin在游牧生活的经历。 Yeah, okay, that’s it for today, thanks Zhilin, hopefully we can connect remotely next time and then we can update Zhilin’s experience in Nomadic Life with everyone.

Zhilin 23:07

好的，谢谢大家。 Okay, thank you all.