Episode 43 | 无法双重国籍的烦恼 Why cannot we have double citizenship?

Xinqing 00:02 Xinqing 00:02

大家好。 Hello everyone.

今天我们请到了一位原来见过的老朋友，不知道有没有熟悉的听众，还记得Vigil, 是我们这个神奇的在岛上在岛上生活的朋友，可以跟大家自我介绍一下吗？ Today we have an old friend that we’ve met before, I don’t know if there’s any familiar listeners, remember Vigil, our amazing friend who lives on the island, can you introduce yourself to us?

Vigil 00:26 Vigil 00:26

Hello大家好，我现在是住在西班牙的加纳利群岛。 Hello everyone, I’m living in the Canary Islands in Spain.

Xinqing 00:34 Xinqing 00:34

对。然后我不知道有没有朋友记得，原来跟Vigil聊的那一期是讲他的神仙一般的爱情故事，说的是他怎么和荷西哥现在是Vigil的老公，他们在泰国潜水的时候认识，然后浪漫的相爱的故事。后来vigil你现在就搬到了岛上，生活已经好几年了。 I am living in the Canary Islands in Spain. And I don’t know if any of you remember, but the original episode with Vigil was about his fairy love story, about how he and Jose, who is now Vigil’s husband, met while they were diving in Thailand and then fell in love romantically. Then vigil you now moved to the island and living has been for several years.

Vigil 00:59 Vigil 00:59

对，我是20年搬过来的，正好就是新冠刚开始的时候，所以基本上三刚刚过了三周年。 Yes, I moved here in 20 years, which happens to be when New Crown first started, so basically three just passed the third anniversary.

Xinqing 01:09 Xinqing 01:09

现在感觉这个岛上生活怎么样？ How do you feel about life on this island now?

Vigil 01:14 Vigil 01:14

还好还比较适应，因为我搬过来的情况，新冠刚开始，然后一开始的封锁，非常诡异的时刻搬过来的时候，就是一个非正常的时期，然后感觉就是在这个岛经历了整个新冠的过程，包括远程也经历了其他国家的新冠的过程，对。还蛮有意思的，然后现在觉得也是对这个岛越来越熟悉了。 Fortunately, it is still relatively adaptable, because I moved over the situation, the new crown just started, and then the beginning of the blockade, very strange moment when moving over, is an abnormal period, and then feel that is in this island through the whole process of the new crown, including remote also experienced the process of the new crown of other countries, yes. It’s quite interesting, and then now I think it’s also getting familiar with this island.

Xinqing 01:47 Xinqing 01:47

对，而且你的西班牙语刚才跟你聊了一会儿，已经西班牙语现在也日常的交流还挺流利的。 Yes, and your Spanish just talked to you for a while, already Spanish is now also quite fluent in daily communication.

Vigil 01:55 Vigil 01:55

算可以应付，不太能进行很专业的那种对话，但是比如说日常就是讲个故事，家人朋友，然后还有一些简单的，比如说政府公文的一些事情都还可以，但是如果是要通过打电话去解决一些问题，然后尤其是一些很具体的有很多具体词汇，然后的时候或者有很多不同很具体的时态，可能就会很困难。 I think I can handle it, I can’t have a very professional conversation, but I can tell a story, tell family and friends, and some simple things like government documents, but if I have to talk on the phone to solve some problems, especially if I have a lot of specific vocabulary or a lot of different specific tenses, it can be very difficult. I’m not sure if I can do that.

Xinqing 02:27 Xinqing 02:27

我觉得你其实已经感觉在是个岛上生活还挺自洽的，然后也挺习惯的，因为正好今天想跟Vigil聊的一个话题是关于换国籍。这件事其实我觉得还是挺敏感，其实对我们中国人来说是一个说大不大，但说小不小的话题，是因为大家听我的podcast也知道，我跟我老公我老公现在是美国人，对我老公不是现在是美国人，他一直是美国人，然后我们现在住在瑞士，住在日内瓦，其实签证一直是一个很大的问题，是个头疼的问题，因为我们都没有在欧洲的永久居住的签证，所以现在是靠我的工作签，所以不同的国籍结婚的话总是住在哪里都有一些问题。然后刚才跟vigil也聊到你老公是西班牙国籍 I think you actually feel quite comfortable living on an island, and you’re quite used to it, because it just so happens that one of the topics I want to talk to Vigil about today is about changing your nationality. This matter actually I think is still quite sensitive, in fact, for us Chinese is a say big not big, but say small not small topic, because we listen to my podcast also know, my husband and I my husband is now American, to my husband is not now American, he has always been American, and then we now live in Switzerland, live in Geneva, in fact, the visa has been a big problem, is a Because we don’t have a visa for permanent residence in Europe, so now we are relying on my work visa, so there are always some problems with where to live if you are married with a different nationality. And then I just talked to vigil about your husband being a Spanish national.

Vigil 03:28 Vigil 03:28

对他是本地人，然后其实这个话题确实不是很容易聊，可能就是一个真的是中国人，尤其中国的移民，我们非常特别的一个问题，因为中国不承认双国籍，所以就是一个你没有办法兼得，如果你可以有两个的话，当然就是一个不需要考虑的事情。对我们比较困难，选择一个就是要放弃，另外一个，所以不管是从感情上还是理性上来说，都是一个挺困难去做决定的事情，对exactly。 He is a local, and then actually this topic is not really easy to talk about, it may be a really Chinese, especially Chinese immigrants, we are very special a problem, because China does not recognize dual nationality, so that is a you can not get both, if you can have two words, of course, is a thing that does not need to be considered. It’s difficult for us to choose one is to give up the other, so whether it’s emotionally or rationally speaking, it’s a pretty difficult thing to decide, EXACTLY.

Xinqing 04:06 Xinqing 04:06

是因为比如说你现在住在这个岛上，然后你又可以拿到永居卡，因为你们两个结婚了，但是比如说你的永居卡是5年的有效期，所以每5年你要去换一次，虽然说5年还是比较长的，但可能对你来说，比如说一直要换要想这个问题还是有一些麻烦，比如说你为什么现在会考虑认真的严肃的考虑换国籍这个事？ It’s because for example, you now live on the island, and then you can get a permanent residence card, because you two married, but for example, your permanent residence card is valid for 5 years, so every 5 years you have to go to change once, although 5 years is still relatively long, but may be for you, for example, has been to change to think about this problem or have some trouble, for example, why you will now consider seriously and seriously consider changing nationality this thing?

Vigil 04:37 Vigil 04:37

我觉得也可能整个新冠的经历会让我考虑这个问题角度有点不同，我想象如果是新冠从来没有发生的话，我应该是可能不管是工作还是各个方面，可能每年都会经常的来办法往返国内，但是因为新冠的原因就是这个链接被切掉了，有点去强迫我去认真的考虑，如果二选一的话必须要选的情况下，因为我觉得之前是可以兼得的，这两边我其实都可以，并且我当时也是曾经也是没有太考虑过会不在中国生活，我之前有点觉得在这边是暂时的，可能我们会回到中国去生活工作一阵子，然后但是怎么说可能是工作上的一些变化，然后很多复杂的原因夹杂在一起，我觉得可能真正的回到国内生活的这个事情，感觉就是遥远了很多，不是像原来想的那么简单 I think it is also possible that the whole experience of the new crown will make me consider this issue from a somewhat different perspective, I imagine that if the new crown never happened, I should be possible regardless of work or various aspects, may be a regular annual approach to travel to and from the country, but because of the new crown is the reason that this link was cut off, somewhat to force me to seriously consider, if the two options must be chosen, then the case, because I think that before it is possible to have both. Because I think before it is possible to have both, both sides I can actually, and I was also at one time is also not too much considered will not live in China, I was a bit think over here is temporary, maybe we will go back to China to live and work for a while, but how to say may be some changes in the work, and then a lot of complex reasons mixed together, I think maybe the real back to the domestic life The thing that I feel is a lot more distant, not as simple as originally thought

Xinqing 05:51 Xinqing 05:51

对我来说也是，我觉得我们长期应该不会回国居住，可能会考虑回国短期的，比如说工作两三年，然后但是长久长远来说，我们还是希望能够在欧洲定居，或者在美国或者在欧洲，所以其实像你说的，我对中国的话也是如果我不在中国长久居住的话，可能国籍就没有那么的重要。但是对我来说，其实整个新冠的疫情的经历，其实是让我对放弃中国国籍有一些更多的顾虑。 For me too, I think we should not return to live in China in the long term, we may consider returning to China for a short period of time, such as working for two or three years, but in the long term, we still hope to settle in Europe, or in the United States or in Europe, so in fact, like you said, I am also to China, if I do not live in China for a long time, then perhaps the nationality is not so important. But for me, the whole experience of the new epidemic has actually made me have more concerns about giving up my Chinese nationality.



因为如果我不是中国国籍的话，回国我需要申请探亲签证，虽然说我其实不知道具体政策就是在新冠的疫情，当时全国封锁的情况下，探亲签证是不是很容易申请，我不知道，但是我会觉得说，就算当时我是中国人，回国也是重重困难，如果说我有一天放弃了中国国籍，又出现了类似的事情，我会不会就没有办法回国，还要申请签证，因为我的爸妈的话，他们肯定会在国内，他们不会出来，不会出国的，所以我觉得还是一点比较困难的考量。 Although I don’t know if it was easy to apply for a family visit visa during the epidemic, I don’t know, but I think that even if I was Chinese, it would be very difficult for me to return to China. I will not be able to return to my country, but also to apply for a visa, because my parents, they will certainly be in the country, they will not come out, will not go abroad, so I think it is still a little more difficult to consider.

Vigil 07:16 Vigil 07:16

其实很有意思，刚才听你说到了，整个新冠尤其是国内的情况，对你想法的影响其实对我来说是相反的。我可能觉得涉及到可能比较敏感的议题，是因为去年线上经历了很多比较极端的情况之后，反而让我觉得我可能更加的不可能真正的去长久的回国居住了。 It’s actually very interesting to hear you say that the whole new crown, especially the domestic situation, has actually had the opposite effect on your thinking for me. I think it’s probably a sensitive issue because I’ve been through a lot of extreme situations on the line in the last year, and it’s made me think that it’s more unlikely that I’m going to really go back to live in my country for a long time.

Xinqing 07:46 Xinqing 07:46

对我理解其实国内当时封锁的时候也出现了很多的负面的新闻，很不好的情况，其实我们在国外读新闻的时候还是挺揪心的，然后我也对中国的很多管理体制可能有一些丧失信心的感觉，其实我觉得当时有很多的中国人在国外的都会有这么一种感受。 I understand that there was a lot of negative news about the embargo at the time, a very bad situation, in fact, when we read the news abroad, it was still quite disturbing, and then I also had some loss of confidence in the Chinese management system.

Vigil 08:10 Vigil 08:10

对。不知道，就真的是很难，这真的是我们来讲很难讨论的一个问题。 Yes. I don’t know, it’s really hard, it’s really a difficult issue for us to discuss.

Xinqing 08:17 Xinqing 08:17

但你觉得你会不会担心，因为你爸妈应该也会留在国内。 But do you think you’ll be worried because your parents should also stay in the country.

Vigil 08:25 Vigil 08:25

但我是在想，如果是又有这样很极端的情况出现，如果你有一个外国的身份，你可能反而是他们唯一的。 But I was thinking that if it’s another one of these very extreme situations that comes up, if you have a foreign identity, you might instead be the only one they have.

Xinqing 08:34 Xinqing 08:34

出路，你可以作为 Last resort，最后的出路。 Out of the way, you could be the Last resort, the last way out.

Vigil 08:39 Vigil 08:39

可能我比较悲观主义，我比较想的总是一种非常极端非常可怕的情况，我记得当时但其实全世界就是新冠那个情况，尤其是刚开始的时候都是比较混乱，我记得当时我常听的一个美国的博客，在新冠刚刚开始在美国的时候，他说他当时都有考虑要不要把他的钱都换成金条， Maybe I am more pessimistic, I think more always a very extreme very terrible situation, I remember then but actually the world is the new crown that situation, especially at the beginning of the time are more chaotic, I remember then I often listen to a U.S. blogger, in the new crown just started in the United States, he said he was thinking about whether to exchange all his money for gold bars.

Xinqing 09:04 Xinqing 09:04

也是越保险越好。 The more insurance you have, the better.

Vigil 09:07 Vigil 09:07

对，觉得好像真的是世界要崩塌的感觉。然后他同时又觉得自己这样想其实很好笑，如果事情真的是坏到这个程度，他有金条有什么用，有可能马上会被他旁边它附近的最就是肌肉块最大的人给抢走，所以如果如果世界真的是失序到这种程度，可能你所做的这一点你觉得是比较聪明，比较保险的方向方法其实也不一定有效了。 The world is falling apart. And then he also felt that he thought this is actually very funny, if things are really bad to this extent, he has gold bars what is the use, there may be immediately next to him it is the largest muscle mass of people to snatch away, so if the world is really out of order to this extent, may you do this you think is more intelligent, more secure direction method actually may not be effective.

Xinqing 09:38 Xinqing 09:38

但我觉得确实是比较悲观的看法，我觉得对我来说最大的考量可能还是比较方便的话，我们未来会住在哪儿？还有一个会考虑小孩的国籍，可能比如说以后生孩子，如果我现在放弃了中国国籍，根据我的现在研究的现在我的认知来说，因为我的小孩就不可能有中国国籍这个身份，如果好像是说我在生这个孩子的时候，我还是中国国籍的话，我的孩子还是可以有一个选择，他可以自己选择他要哪个国籍，好像是这么说的。 But I think it is indeed a more pessimistic view, I think the biggest consideration for me may be more convenient, where will we live in the future? There is also a consideration of the nationality of the child, perhaps for example, in the future, if I give up my Chinese nationality, according to my current research now my perception, because my child will not be able to have the identity of Chinese nationality, if it seems to be that when I give birth to this child, I still have Chinese nationality, my child can still have a choice, he can choose for himself which nationality he wants. It seems to say so.

Vigil 10:18 Vigil 10:18

完全没有研究过，因为我们其实是不打算要孩子的。 I haven’t researched this at all because we don’t actually plan to have children.

Xinqing 10:23 Xinqing 10:23

所以你们完全不打算。 So you’re not planning on it at all.

Vigil 10:27 Vigil 10:27

然后所以倒还没有在我们的考虑之中。然后但其实还有一点，因为我现在虽然其实从日常生活来讲，我在这边的生活其实没有没有很大的这种需求，要去换一个当地的国籍，因为我在这边在这边有西班牙国籍的人，日常能有的那些就是社会福利，其实我也都是有的，所以我觉得没有当地没有对没有国籍的人有这样的这种启示，你作为一个永久居留者，跟有当地国籍的人可能区别比较大的，也许就是一个投票的问题。 So it’s not in our consideration yet. But there is one more thing, because I don’t have a great need to change my nationality in my daily life, because I have a Spanish nationality here. So I think there is no local revelation for people who don’t have a nationality, and the difference between being a permanent resident and having a local nationality is probably a voting issue.

Xinqing 11:10 Xinqing 11:10

对，其实说白了最后居民如果你有国籍和你没有国籍，但是你有永久居留，唯一的区别就是投票的问题。但如果你不是很political，你不是很关心当地政治投不投票也没有特别大的关系。 Yes, in fact, to be frank, if you have a nationality and you do not have a nationality, but you have a permanent residence, the only difference is the issue of voting. But if you’re not very political, you don’t care very much about local politics, it doesn’t really matter if you vote or not.

Vigil 11:27 Vigil 11:27

然后除了这个之外，其实还有一点可能对我影响比较大的，我们在欧洲其他国家工作的权利，因为我当时之前工作的机构是base在英国的，然后所以我当时有想过把我的合同给改到英国，但他们告诉我，因为我没有西班牙的国籍，我只有这边的居留，所以他没有办法把我的合同改到英国去，但我不知道这个是不是一个就是跟英国脱欧有关系。 And then apart from that, there is actually another point that might have a big impact on me, our right to work in other European countries, because the organization I was working for at the time was BASE in the UK, so I thought about changing my contract to the UK, but they told me that because I don’t have Spanish citizenship, I only have residency here, so there was no way he could change my contract to the UK. But I don’t know if this one is one is related to the Brexit.



但比如说如果我现在看到一个工作，比如说在荷兰我很感兴趣，我现在是不是我的国籍又会成为一个一个复杂的因素，相比于如果我有一个欧盟就是申根国家的国籍，我这个工作是不是能更容易的拿到？ But for example, if I see a job, for example, in the Netherlands I’m interested in, whether I have my nationality or not will be a complicating factor, as opposed to if I have an EU or Schengen nationality, will I be able to get the job more easily?

Xinqing 12:12 Xinqing 12:12

对，我也没研究过。不知道永久居留的话，工作的情况是不是和居民完全一样好？ Yeah, I haven’t looked into that either. I wonder if the work situation is exactly as good as a resident if you are a permanent resident?

Vigil 12:22 Vigil 12:22

是个好问题，怎么说就是一个但可能不会对你生活造成特别大的影响，但是在某些时刻它就真的会变成你离你想到达的这个东西就差的那1%，对是的。 It’s a good question, how is it a but it may not have a particularly big impact on your life, but at some point it becomes really that 1% that you’re just short of this thing that you want to get to, yeah yeah.

Xinqing 12:39 Xinqing 12:39

我觉得关键对我们来说现在是个2选1的问题。那么如果中国的国籍没有那么重要的话，还不如就是换成当地的国籍，这样找工作什么都可以。根据当地来，如果我们长期就会在国外生活，但是我觉得像你说的对我来说还是有一些情怀情怀的问题，我觉得作为一个中国人，somehow我们对我们中国人的认知identity还是挺重的，放弃国籍好像是一件非常重要的事情。 I think the key for us right now is a 2 for 1 issue. So if Chinese nationality is not that important, it’s better to just switch to local nationality so you can find a job and everything. According to the local come, if we will live abroad for a long time, but I think like you said for me there is still some sentimental sentiment problem, I think as a Chinese, somhow our perception of our Chinese identity is still quite heavy, give up the nationality seems to be a very important thing.

Vigil 13:12 Vigil 13:12

是有一点感情上来讲，但实际上理性来分析的话，你国籍改变了之后，你仍然会用微信，你仍然会跟国内非常的同频，所以我觉得其实没有任何变化，就国籍这个东西只是在一些生活的行政上的问题，你去哪里旅行，需不需要签证，或者是你能不能拿到在当地哪个在什么地区工作，有没有合适的身份，真的跟感情没有太大的关系。 I think there is no change in the nationality of the country, it’s just a matter of administration, where you travel, whether you need a visa or not, or whether you can get a job in the local area, whether you have the right status. identity, really does not have much to do with feelings.



所以我其实也是去年开始，我觉得像一个天平，然后当一个国籍它带来的方便已经开始很大的胜过了，没有另一个国籍带来的麻烦，可能我们就会比较容易的做选择了。 So I actually started last year, I think it’s like a balance, and then when the convenience of one nationality has started to outweigh the trouble of not having another nationality, it’s probably easier for us to make a choice.

Xinqing 14:01 Xinqing 14:01

对，我觉得完全是像你说的其实是一个cost benefit analysis，所以当公平开始倾斜的时候你就会考虑，但是我刚才有想到一个问题，就是关于签证去其他国家旅游的签证，它是根据你的国籍还是永居，如果你有永居的话，你也可以享受那些签证的福利吗？没有 Yes, I think it’s exactly like you said it’s actually a cost benefit analysis, so when the scales start to tip you’ll consider it, but I just had a question in mind, which is about visas to travel to other countries, is it based on your nationality or permanent residence, and if you have permanent residence, can you also enjoy the benefits of those visas? No.



对。 Right.

Vigil 14:30 Vigil 14:30

比如说如果我有西班牙的国籍，肯定最起码拉美地区。任何欧盟的国籍，每周我觉得应该基本上都是免签的，旅行签证这个事情就会变得非常简单。 For example if I have Spanish nationality, definitely at the very least Latin American. Any EU nationality, every week I think it should be basically visa free, and the travel visa thing becomes very easy.

Xinqing 14:44 Xinqing 14:44

对，这可能也是一个很大的便利。其实说白了中国签证中国国籍在旅游签证这一块是非常糟糕的，基本上去所有的国家我们都需要签证。 Yes, this may also be a great convenience. In fact, to put it bluntly Chinese visa Chinese nationality is very bad in this piece of travel visa, basically to go to all countries we need a visa.

Vigil 14:57 Vigil 14:57

很多除了那些就是非常受欢迎的旅游国家，可能有落地签什么的，但是其他的如果你想去远一点的地方，还是会麻烦很多，对吧？ A lot of except those is very popular tourist countries, may have visa on arrival or something, but the rest if you want to go farther away, or will be a lot of trouble, right?

Xinqing 15:09 Xinqing 15:09

我觉得最有意思的一件事情是，我有的时候会和我的外国朋友讨论到换国籍的这个事情，然后我发现很多的外国朋友都没有考没有认知到，就没有认识到，世界上有一些国家是不允许双重国籍的，比如说中国，其实很多东亚国家都不允许的，日本也是不允许双重国籍的，所以我每次我都要跟他们解释说，我必须要两者选一个，如果我要加入美国国籍的话，我要放弃中国的护照，这个中文有一句话叫鱼与熊掌不能兼得，这句话比较深奥，就是鱼，fish和熊掌怎么解释？ I think one of the most interesting things is that I sometimes discuss with my foreign friends about this matter of changing citizenship, and then I find that many of them are not aware of it, they don’t realize that there are countries in the world that do not allow dual citizenship, for example, China, in fact, many East Asian countries do not allow it, and Japan also does not allow dual citizenship, so I have to explain to them every time I I have to explain that I have to choose one of the two, if I want to join the U.S. citizenship, I have to give up the Chinese passport, the Chinese have a saying called fish and bear paw can not be both, this sentence is more profound, is the fish, fish and bear paw how to explain?

Vigil 15:56 Vigil 15:56

Hnnd of a bear, claw? Hnnd of a bear, claw?

Xinqing 15:58 Xinqing 15:58

但我不知道为什么这两个东西都很重要，但我们就会比，是都很好吃是吗？咱们古代人是会吃熊掌的吗？ But I don’t know why both of these things are important, but then we would compare, are both very tasty is it? Are our ancient people the ones who would eat bear claws?

Vigil 16:08 Vigil 16:08

熊掌在中药里面是大补的 Bear paw is a great tonic in Chinese medicine

Xinqing 16:13 Xinqing 16:13

反正这句话，我现在仔细想想还是蛮好笑的，因为鱼其实很容易买到，为什么我们不选鱼呢？Anyways这句话的意思就是两个很重要的东西，但是你不能都得到，所以你必须要选一个。所以经常对我们来说就是一个鱼与熊掌不能兼得的情况。 Anyway, this sentence, I now think carefully or quite funny, because fish is actually very easy to buy, why we do not choose fish?Anyways the meaning of this sentence is two very important things, but you can not get both, so you have to choose one. So often for us it’s a situation where we can’t have both the fish and the bear’s paw.

Vigil 16:33 Vigil 16:33

是，但这个其实也很不公平，因为对很多人来说是可以兼得的。 Yes, but this is actually quite unfair as well, because for many people it is possible to have both.

Xinqing 16:38 Xinqing 16:38

对很多人来说不只是可以兼得，可以三得四得。有我认识有些外国的朋友有4个护照，然后我觉得这也太方便了，比如说就有一个特别小的福利，我如果要申请一个签证，我有的时候要把护照放在大使馆，然后我就没有护照可以旅游，我就会受到限制。然后我就想到有些朋友他有4本护照，他可以随便用哪一本护照来travel，我就想说这也太方便了。 For many people not only can you get both, you can get three or four. I know some foreign friends who have four passports, and I think it’s too convenient, for example, to have a particularly small benefit, if I want to apply for a visa, I sometimes have to leave my passport at the embassy, and then I don’t have a passport to travel, and I’m restricted. Then I thought of some friends he has 4 passports, he can just use which one passport to travel, I would say this is too convenient.

Vigil 17:07 Vigil 17:07

我觉得对我们来说我们都有那种不管是学生时代，尤其是留学生当留学生的时候，或者是在国外工作的时候，是因为国籍的这个事情会带来很多的麻烦。 I think for us we all have the kind of thing that can cause a lot of trouble no matter when we are students, especially when we are international students, or when we are working abroad because of this nationality thing.



我记得尤其是我在美国读大学的时候，4年，当时的签证是1年一签，现在是有10年前了，我那个时候一年一签，我那个期间如果我一年之内，如果我在我签证要过期的时候，我离开了美国，我就要重新去签证，这个过程非常费时，然后费力也很贵，就是这样的事情非常多 I remember especially when I was in college in the United States, 4 years, when the visa was 1 year a visa, now there is 10 years ago, I was a year a visa, I that period if I within a year, if I in my visa to expire when I left the United States, I have to go back to the visa, this process is very time-consuming, and then laborious also very expensive, is this kind of thing very much

Xinqing 17:46 Xinqing 17:46

而且每次签证都很浪费钱，你不能说浪费钱就会花很多钱。 And every time a visa is a waste of money, you can’t say it’s a waste of money it’s going to cost a lot of money.



比如说我现在在世界经济论坛工作，经常要去英国出差，但英国我每次都会拿1个特别短的签证，3个月有效期或者6个月有效期的签证，然后你知道英国签证又很贵，对吧？我在这儿可以吐槽一下，不知道有没有英国的听众，英国的签证真的是我觉得往死命收钱，如果你想要很快的accelerated service的话，你可以花到500英镑600英镑，每次签证，然后他会就只给你6个月。 For example, I am now working in the World Economic Forum, often have to go to the United Kingdom on business, but the United Kingdom every time I will take a particularly short visa, 3 months valid or 6 months valid visa, and then you know the United Kingdom visa and very expensive, right? I can spit it out here, I don’t know if there are any UK listeners, the UK visa is really I think to the death to charge money, if you want a quick accelerated service, you can spend up to £500 £600 per visa, and then he will just give you 6 months.

Vigil 18:26 Vigil 18:26

但你知道吗？英国签证的好处是就是拿钱办事，所以你可以买到更长期的签证。我之前也因为工作的机会要经常去英国，所以我当时办了一个5年的签证，真的是蛮贵的，但因为是因公因公办的，所以就还好，但如果说我私人来讲，如果我去旅行的话，我就不太可能。 But you know what? The good thing about the UK visa is that you get paid to do things, so you can buy a longer term visa. I had to go to the UK a lot for work, so I got a 5 year visa, which was really expensive, but because it was for business, it was fine, but if I’m a private person, if I’m traveling, I’m not likely to.

Xinqing 18:48 Xinqing 18:48

就是一种有钱能使鬼推磨的感觉。对。 It’s a feeling that money can make a difference. Right.

Vigil 18:54 Vigil 18:54

是的，但是其实对于其他的有一些国家，你哪怕给钱，他也有可能会给你拒签，所以相对来讲有利有弊。 Yes, but in fact, for some other countries, even if you pay money, he may also give you a visa refusal, so relatively speaking, there are advantages and disadvantages.

Xinqing 19:05 Xinqing 19:05

这倒是，但总而言之就是签证上都不知道我们从小到大花了多少钱，像我们这种很喜欢出去旅游的人，真的是时间精力，所以我觉得这也是换国籍的，对我来说是一大重考量，未来旅游会方便很多。我其实身边有蛮多朋友，中国朋友换了国籍的，可能有两个是换了法国国籍的。 This is true, but all in all is the visa are not sure how much money we have spent since childhood, like we like to go out to travel people, really time and energy, so I think this is also a change of nationality, for me is a big heavy consideration, the future travel will be much more convenient. I actually have quite a lot of friends around me, Chinese friends who have changed their nationality, and maybe two who have changed their French nationality.

Vigil 19:30 Vigil 19:30

对，我觉得还是我开始比较倾向于想要去换的，除了工作跟旅行这两个方面，然后可能有比较多的今年其实也去见了一些朋友，大家同样是移民女性的身份，就是有这样的一个群体之后，我觉得更有这种身份认同，有这样的一群人可能跟你分享同样的这样的负担，然后这种选择的挣扎，然后你可以看到就这个群体里面可能有有这样的一个趋势，我觉得很多人是在倾向于。 Yes, I think I still tend to want to change, in addition to work and travel these two aspects, and then there may be more this year actually went to see some friends, we are also immigrant women’s identity, that is, after such a group, I think there is more of this identity, there is such a group of people may share the same burden with you, and then this choice of struggle, and then you You can see that there’s probably a trend within this group that I think a lot of people are leaning towards.

Xinqing 20:10 Xinqing 20:10

你为什么觉得移民女性女性是一个很重要的标签，就咱们一名女性和一名男性对于换国籍这件事情上有什么不同区别吗？ Why do you think women are an important label for immigrant women, and is there any difference between a woman and a man in terms of changing their nationality?

Vigil 20:22 Vigil 20:22

我觉得可能也有点是个巧合，正巧我今年见到了很多移民女性的朋友，然后我们其实很大的一个共同点就是我们的伴侣都是外国人，就都是欧洲人，或者是不一定是在我们国家移民女性， I think it’s probably a coincidence that I’ve met a lot of immigrant women this year, and one of the big things we have in common is that our partners are all foreigners, European, or not necessarily immigrant women in our country.

Xinqing 20:41 Xinqing 20:41

这可能最大的区别是关于小孩的生，如果你要生孩子的话，这一重考量，但你刚才说你可能不需要考虑生孩子的事情。 That’s probably the biggest difference is about the birth of children, if you’re going to have children, that’s a big consideration, but you just said you probably don’t need to think about having children.

Vigil 20:51 Vigil 20:51

对，我觉得而且我刚才提到的这些移民女性，我们其实还都没有这种生孩子的考虑。 Yeah, I think and all these immigrant women that I just mentioned, we don’t actually have this consideration of having children yet.

Xinqing 21:04 Xinqing 21:04

对，有可能这个是做决定的一个因素，因为对我来说最后的一种考虑，我要不要考虑我的小孩想想是中国国籍就有一点我觉得是我做了一个决定，然后剥夺了他的我的小孩的一个选择权。 Yes, it’s possible that this is a factor in the decision, because the last consideration for me, whether I want to consider my child to think about Chinese nationality is a little bit I think I made a decision and then deprived him of a choice for my child.

Vigil 21:21 Vigil 21:21

我觉得应该是他不管怎么说肯定是华裔吧，我觉得有华裔的背景，我们就是中国没有，比如说如果你爷爷奶奶。 I think it should be that he is definitely of Chinese descent no matter how you say it, I think there is a Chinese background, we are China is not, for example if your grandparents.

Xinqing 21:31 Xinqing 21:31

没有这个政策，中国就是你一旦放弃了中国国籍，再拿回来是很难的。所以这也是我觉得为什么放弃的心理压力比较重，是因为你其实再拿回来国籍还是挺难的。 There is no such policy, China is that once you give up your Chinese citizenship, it is very difficult to get it back again. So that’s why I think the psychological pressure to renounce is heavier, because you actually get your nationality back again is still quite difficult.

Vigil 21:51 Vigil 21:51

Ok，所以其实对你来讲是放弃一个就是为你的后代放弃了一个选择，对是的。 Ok, so actually for you to give up one is to give up a choice for your offspring, yes.

Xinqing 22:01 Xinqing 22:01

有一点像放弃了你的 last name，再也不能传承下去，然后中国国籍的身份就不能被传承下去了。 It’s a little bit like giving up your last name, you can’t pass it on anymore, and then the Chinese nationality can’t be passed on.

Vigil 22:12 Vigil 22:12

但对我们这种不要后代的人来讲，传承这个东西就意义就不大了。 But for people like us who don’t want offspring, the inheritance thing means very little.

Xinqing 22:19 Xinqing 22:19

对，anyways挺有意思的，我觉得我也是跟越来越多的人移民女性一起讨论这个问题，也是反正现在还不着急做决定，对我们来说，慢慢再看看今年明年是个什么状态。 Yes, anyways quite interesting, I think I am also discussing this issue with more and more people immigrant women, also is not in a hurry to make a decision now anyway, for us, slowly and then see what the state of this year next year.

Vigil 22:35 Vigil 22:35

对，还有点比较subtle的一点，我现在在这边的永居的身份也是跟我的婚姻是挂钩的。这个东西你当然多少有1%的这种疑问，就是如果有一天我们不在一起了，我们选择要分开，我们能不能很自由的去我需不需要我这个身份的问题会不会成为我要不要分开的选择当中的一个考虑？ Yes, there is also a bit more subtle point, I am now on this side of the permanent residence status is also linked to my marriage is linked. This is something you certainly have more or less 1% of this kind of doubt, that is, if one day we are no longer together, we choose to separate, can we be very free to go to the question of whether I need my status will become a consideration in the choice of whether I want to separate?



对，其实我不想有这样多重的束缚，如果我离开了一个婚姻或者一个工作，我就是必须要离开我居住的这个地方，我觉得其实也是是一个你不得不考虑的事情，因为我觉得有的时候离开一个地方就是一个社会体系，可能就是比一段关系一段工作，它给你人生带来的影响还要更大。 Yes, in fact, I do not want to have such multiple constraints, if I leave a marriage or a job, I just have to leave the place where I live, I think it is actually a thing you have to consider, because I think sometimes leaving a place is a social system, may be more than a relationship a job, it brings more impact on your life.

Xinqing 23:26 Xinqing 23:26

我同意对。有的时候你会觉得你是被blackmail，被绑架或者被敲诈了。就也没有那么严重，但比如说现在我的工作签证在瑞士，是我唯一能够合法居留在瑞士的条件，所以如果我如果我不喜欢我的工作，我不可能辞职，因为如果我一旦辞职，我就不能留在日内瓦，不能留在欧洲了。但我又很喜欢这个国家，很喜欢我住的地方，所以就有点像你说的，你的生活的自由度其实是被签证的身份给束缚住了。 I agree. There are times when you feel like you’re being blackmailed, kidnapped or blackmailed. It’s not that serious, but for example, right now my work visa is in Switzerland and it’s the only condition that I can legally stay in Switzerland, so if I if I don’t like my job, I can’t quit because if I once quit, I can’t stay in Geneva, I can’t stay in Europe. But again, I love the country and I love where I live, so it’s kind of like you said, your freedom of life is actually tied up in the visa status.

Vigil 24:02 Vigil 24:02

对，被捆绑。我觉得可能说到底，就是哪一个护照能给你更多自由，我觉得可能自由真的是就是爱情诚可贵，自由价更高。对这首诗怎么说的来着？ Yeah, tied up. I think maybe in the end, it’s about which passport gives you more freedom, and I think maybe freedom really is just love is valuable and freedom is more expensive. What does the poem say about this?

Xinqing 24:24 Xinqing 24:24

我们给定听众解释一下。 Let’s explain it to our regular listeners.

Vigil 24:26 Vigil 24:26

爱情诚可贵，生命价更高。 Love is precious, but life is worth more.

Xinqing 24:30 Xinqing 24:30

生命价更高，若为自由故，两者皆可抛。 Life is more valuable, if it’s for freedom, both can be thrown away.



对大概的全翻译一下，就是说爱情很重要，生命也很重要，但是自由是最重要的。对好深奥，我们就以这句话来作为我们pod cast结尾，祝我们都能找到生活的自由。谢谢vigil. 好，我们下期再见。 To translate the whole thing, it means that love is important, life is important, but freedom is the most important. We’ll end our pod cast with this quote, and may we all find freedom in our lives. Thank you, vigil.